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Teddyp

I Want To Get Stroked, I Think.

27 posts in this topic

This winter I'm having done; cam, long tubes, and high flows on my '13 392 6 speed Challenger. I will always keep the motor NA and never spray. That being said can someone give me the pros and cons, if there are any, to doing a 392/426 stroker kit, in addition to a custom grind cam for the added cubes.

 

Approximately how much of a difference in power/torque, all else being equal, can you see in the 426 stroker over the stock 392? Is it cost effective, (dollar to horsepower), especially adding a custom grind to the stroker?

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Supercharge and be done.

hey what's up my man?!! Happy New Year to you. Love your new garage by the way.

 

Anyhow, your short answer is most likely true for most of us, even me. But I need to be schooled in why? I'm not the kind of guy that aims for a particular power number or even a specific 1/4 time and trap speed. I just want more power than the average 392.

 

In my mind I go back and forth between NA and FI. If I were to do FI I go back and forth between twin screw and centrifugal! If I do NA I go back and forth between just cam, long tubes or cam , long tubes, AND stroker, lol. Now do you see why I'm so dam confused?

 

Maybe if I told you how I drive the car and what I expect you or someone can help me determine what's best for me, albeit I have a feeling what you said in your original post will still hold true.

 

I don't need to drive the car everyday. I own two other vehicles for daily use. The best definition I have for the the car is its a "good weather daily drive". When I do drive it, I usually like to DRIVE it when time and conditions permit. NO rain, frozen precip, salt- none of that. I've had the car for 2 years and 8 months and it has 13,000 miles on it. I average almost 4,900 a year.

 

I just want some more balls for my 6 speed. I love the car. Also a note on FI. If I were too go that route, having all that work done, money spent, it seems to me it would be a shame to only run 6-8 pounds of boost. Is that really worth it?? If I turn up the boost now I'm looking at pistons, rods. Then it leads to a new Achilles heal, clutch, tranny, driveline.

 

I know I threw a lot out there. However I will put the money into the car, I just want the best build for my simple needs. Oh one more thing, I never plan on taking it to the track, if I did it would be only once or twice just to see the capabilities.

Thanks Speedy and all who chime in. Happy New Year to all. Be safe.

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ill settle it for you. stroked at the extensive cost for machining and replacing an already forged crank for a 1000 bucks for an extra couple hp and torque you may notice or not. your ten fold ahead to do pistons and rods with boost. save the machine work etc... and a grand for minimal size increase. lets be honest here if you wanted a penial enlargment from 4" you wouldnt add a .25 only would you? because its just not enough satisfactory increase to benefit your needs for more umf. you want noticeable more umf so add boost will be tenfold ahead of a tiny fraction of stroke per cubic dollar.

 

stroker cost you about 5 grand no labor included. blower the same or a touch more. one of them will add 25-30hp and the other 150hp and done in your driveway over beer on the weekend.

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By looking at your screen name I thought you were really going to screw me up and say twin turbo! lol. I hear what your saying. If I were to go Nader the knife I'd want the most "bang" for my buck. I didn't know that stroking didn't add much. So much for "no replacement for displacement". Why do guys do it then? What's their reasoning? It seems popular. So I do the Pistons, rods turn up the boost to what? I don't want to do clutch and other shit, so what's a safe level?

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Thanks man, I'm real happy with the garage and Happy New Year to you as well. 

 

I was hoping you'd ask for more detail, but turbofreek pretty much nailed it.

 

The phrase "no replacement for displacement" came from a time when other solutions were expensive, unreliable, and a PITA to live with.  With modern tech none of those things are true any longer.

 

If I were in your shoes, I'd get a 2.9L Whipple kit for the car put it on and have some fun.  If you decide you want more, THEN forge/stroke to a 426 and put the Whipple back on there and have MORE fun.  If you want more fun than that, go buy a race car lol

 

A VVT 426 that's reasonably driveable around town will "maybe" get 500RWHP and IMO that's probably pushing it for REAL drivability in a stick car.  Some people make more power than 500 with a 426 but I wouldn't wanna drive their car a lot on the street, and they get purpose built ($$$) to exceed that in most cases. 

 

You put a 8psi 2.9L Whipple kit on there and it'll pretty much drive like stock until you get in to the throttle and then you better have both hands on the wheel as you'll be closer to 600RWHP which is PLENTY on the street.  Want more, throw some 109 race fuel in it at the track and put a 10psi pulley on it and go racing.

 

I like a PD blower (positive displacement) over a centrifugal especially on the street because of the instant torque.  Makes it a lot of fun to drive.

 

I'd get some upgraded axles and a gauge or two to go with it and leave the rest a lone until you decide you want more.  I see way too many people throw everything and the kitchen sink at their car and end up unhappy with their car and with too much power to really enjoy on the street.

 

Hit the track a few times and if you enjoy it get a drive shaft and some slicks and skinnies and you'll be low 11s to high 10s once you figure out the driving at 125 - 130MPH in the 1/4.

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If your going to stroke it and stay n/a you'll get the best bang for the buck with a 4.25 crank which on the 6.4 should give 446ci and around 550-580 rwhp.

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You probably the only one that thinks 8# is a waste. Bang for the buck you can't beat boost

never said you couldn't. ....however the op asked about n/a in the original post. If you want the best of both do a mild 426 with 10.0 compression so that when you get bored the you do a blower with 10-12 lbs. But yes, I prefer to see the look on a person's face when they get beat by an NA car.

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By looking at your screen name I thought you were really going to screw me up and say twin turbo! lol. I hear what your saying. If I were to go Nader the knife I'd want the most "bang" for my buck. I didn't know that stroking didn't add much. So much for "no replacement for displacement". Why do guys do it then? What's their reasoning? It seems popular. So I do the Pistons, rods turn up the boost to what? I don't want to do clutch and other shit, so what's a safe level?

i dont like twin turbos. i like gigantic single turbos. modern mopars dont have anything worth looming at turbowise. it is all hidden and expensive but still more powerful than the other power adders on earth. just takes a different bread to run them. procharger is the best bang for buck. im not a fan of pd blowers. they create TONS of heat. ugly and sound terrible. id always suggest turbos to those who seem afforded to go all out one day. you didnt come off as the type but just wanting something better than the average lightly moded similar type vehicle you cross paths with. blower will be a winner. ati is purdy and not a heat pump like the pd stuff.

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You probably the only one that thinks 8# is a waste. Bang for the buck you can't beat boost

No, I'm sorry. What I meant is if I were to boost more than 6-8 I'd have to take into account these glass Pistons in the 392. I can't see leaving the car at those lower boost levels AND NOT doing Pistons and rods to really make the the super charger worth while. But then I'm back to square one; I want more power than the average 392 on the street, but I don't want to start changing parts when I change a part. Kind of like panting a room and you get to the door way. Do you paint the doorway? If you do, do you paint the adjoining room? Where do you stop? The more power I add, it seems the more parts I need. Originally I thought stroking the motor and adding a matched cam with long tubes would have been a cost effective way to add some good power, but yet keep it just under 600 crank, which I believe is what the stock clutch is rated in torque.

 

Thank you, all of you. I love reading this stuff, I soak it up like a sponge.

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teddy you are kinda where i am at..  i have  6.1 car with a magnuson at 8lbs..  what my PLAN is to do drop in pistons and a cam and springs and be done. i want to up it to 10-12lbs.. really i just want a cam. but if i have to tear apart the motor for that i am going to do the pistons and rods as insurance.

 

i don't race.. nor will I.  just set a limit. and stay at that limit.. If you don't. you will drive yourself NUTS.

remember 550 hp vs 600. on the street won't mean much when tires are spinning lol.

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600RWHP has been fun, but once you find out you've maxed out the setup you start looking for more.  Ask me how I know lol


i dont like twin turbos. i like gigantic single turbos. modern mopars dont have anything worth looming at turbowise. it is all hidden and expensive but still more powerful than the other power adders on earth. just takes a different bread to run them. procharger is the best bang for buck. im not a fan of pd blowers. they create TONS of heat. ugly and sound terrible. id always suggest turbos to those who seem afforded to go all out one day. you didnt come off as the type but just wanting something better than the average lightly moded similar type vehicle you cross paths with. blower will be a winner. ati is purdy and not a heat pump like the pd stuff.

 

PD louder than a centri???  Have you heard a ProCharger in person lol

 

Also, I don't know of a single car manufacturer that uses a centrifugal blower on their cars that are force induction with a supercharger.  EVERY single one is a PD blower from the ZR1 Vette to the GT500 Mustang, the Ford GT, and now the Hellcat.  There's a reason the engineers choose a PD blower :)

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600RWHP has been fun, but once you find out you've maxed out the setup you start looking for more. Ask me how I know lol

 

 

PD louder than a centri??? Have you heard a ProCharger in person lol

 

Also, I don't know of a single car manufacturer that uses a centrifugal blower on their cars that are force induction with a supercharger. EVERY single one is a PD blower from the ZR1 Vette to the GT500 Mustang, the Ford GT, and now the Hellcat. There's a reason the engineers choose a PD blower :)

Enough is never enough ! There is always the next mod or build just around the corner.

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600RWHP has been fun, but once you find out you've maxed out the setup you start looking for more.  Ask me how I know lol

 

 

PD louder than a centri???  Have you heard a ProCharger in person lol

 

Also, I don't know of a single car manufacturer that uses a centrifugal blower on their cars that are force induction with a supercharger.  EVERY single one is a PD blower from the ZR1 Vette to the GT500 Mustang, the Ford GT, and now the Hellcat.  There's a reason the engineers choose a PD blower :)

yes i have and i have also owned several belt slingers to make me puke. the reason they choose pd blowers is because they can limit the buyer from turning that shit up further than the engine can handle. requiring them to upgrade to a bigger one which is visually obvious and voids the warranty.

procharger whines at idle yes. but it doesnt sound like shit at wot like a pd blubber does. also if and when you toss a blower belt the centri can still be driven. hows that pd blower work out without the belt?

 

there is a reason ill never run anything but a turbo. i just stop selling it to people as ideal cuz its not for the weak or faint of heart. it takes a driven a hole to succeed and continue along with a turbo setup. they break every damn thing including the concrete they drive over. lol

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I love the whine of my blower and I wear out belts but never throw one.  I think a lot of that is in the setup.  I have seen a lot of centris throw their belts as well, but good point on still being able to drive the car....I keep a spare in my trunk.

 

I hear ya on the turbo setups.  To me there are just too many points of failure with all the piping and clamps, but they sure make some good power when working properly.

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I love the whine of my blower and I wear out belts but never throw one.  I think a lot of that is in the setup.  I have seen a lot of centris throw their belts as well, but good point on still being able to drive the car....I keep a spare in my trunk.

 

I hear ya on the turbo setups.  To me there are just too many points of failure with all the piping and clamps, but they sure make some good power when working properly.

with the correct piping material one should never have failure. design and implementation is key and since its always do it yourself stuff. well failure happens more than often that is should. you wont see mine fail on my dart. but i also know all to well what does fail. experience is probably what keeps me going and ignorance to do so. lol

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Well I was going to start a new thread about this same subject. Interesting read and great input.

 

My plan was to bore (or stroke) my 2011 392 A5 AND add a 2.9LWhipple. After reading and re-reading this thread, I'm rethinking that.  The main reason I was considering boring to a 426 is because of my mileage. I'm right at 50K miles. My concern was that I might run into problems when installing forged internals with wear from the 50K miles. So why not just bore it out?

 

No doubt about it, I'm installing the Whipple 2.9L and forged internals. Anyone else added forged pistons/rings/rods on a Challenger with this kind of mileage? Issues?. Would I be better off maybe adding a 274 cam and long tubes rather than boring it out?  I do plan on racing at the track and have DR's.

 

Input? Thanks all........  B)

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