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Teddyp

Apache Heads Worth Porting Keeping N/a????????

105 posts in this topic

Having some basic work done on my 6 speed 392 within the next few months. I know the majority of you guys are going to say, "super charge and be done with it!" lol. I hear ya. The problem is I don't feel like having the pistons, rods, and clutch done. It's like one thing leads to another. I kind of want to keep it simple and just add some more power

 

I got a price from a reputable shop here on Long Island. A.J was notified and will be picking out the cam profile and doing the tuning on site. Cam and install=$4400; ARH long tubes/mids and install=$2200. So I'm at $6600. A.J. Said he can send the heads out, port and polish with a 3 angle valve job for $1700.

 

Now, regardless of what's ever done, (N/A or power adder in the future), the headers and mids will have to be done. So minus that for right now and I'm at $6100 for cam and heads, IF I do the heads.

 

Here's my question; should I do the head job?

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Heads will pick up around 30-40 rwhp depending on the cam grind.

thats JUST the heads? If so, good enough of an average for me. I'll do them then. Let me ask you this too. An aggressive cam, long tubes, head work, tune; how much do you think I'll add RWHP?

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thats JUST the heads? If so, good enough of an average for me. I'll do them then. Let me ask you this too. An aggressive cam, long tubes, head work, tune; how much do you think I'll add RWHP?

 

I'm at 530 with that on a stroker.

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I shake my head at spending all that cash for power you probably won't even notice.  You're piratically at the price of a Whipple which you will DEFINITELY notice.  You don't have to upgrade pistons, rods, nor clutch if you stick with the base setup.

 

I was told when my engine was built to skip the head work as it wasn't worth it cost for a FI application where you're power adder is cramming the air in for you.  Put that toward something else.

 

My unsolicited .02 cents. 

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I shake my head at spending all that cash for power you probably won't even notice. You're piratically at the price of a Whipple which you will DEFINITELY notice. You don't have to upgrade pistons, rods, nor clutch if you stick with the base setup.

 

I was told when my engine was built to skip the head work as it wasn't worth it cost for a FI application where you're power adder is cramming the air in for you. Put that toward something else.

 

My unsolicited .02 cents.

i appreciate it man. What would exactly be a base Whipple package consist of where I don't need to do all the upgrades we mentioned? How much boost can I keep the SP at? Do I need meth injection. And finally how much, approximately, can I get a base Whipple system for and installed? Thanks brother.

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thats JUST the heads? If so, good enough of an average for me. I'll do them then. Let me ask you this too. An aggressive cam, long tubes, head work, tune; how much do you think I'll add RWHP?

80-100 over stock

I shake my head at spending all that cash for power you probably won't even notice. You're piratically at the price of a Whipple which you will DEFINITELY notice. You don't have to upgrade pistons, rods, nor clutch if you stick with the base setup.

 

I was told when my engine was built to skip the head work as it wasn't worth it cost for a FI application where you're power adder is cramming the air in for you. Put that toward something else.

 

My unsolicited .02 cents.

it's a 6.4.....6psi with an aggressive enough tune to notice will break pistons

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i appreciate it man. What would exactly be a base Whipple package consist of where I don't need to do all the upgrades we mentioned? How much boost can I keep the SP at? Do I need meth injection. And finally how much, approximately, can I get a base Whipple system for and installed? Thanks brother.

 

No meth injection.  550-600RWHP range.  AJ has the Whipple kits so best to just get the info straight from him.  $9K seems high to me installed, but maybe......  Pretty straight forward to do it yourself with the tricky part being pinning the crank IMO.

 

80-100 over stock

it's a 6.4.....6psi with an aggressive enough tune to notice will break pistons

 

Howie's seemed to do pretty good, granted it was a Procharger but it lived just fine at 6-8psi.  I know folks talk about the pistons on the 6.4s, but the 5.7s blew up left and right at first too. 

 

Like I said just giving my unsolicited .02 cents.  No way I'd do NA mods over a blower but that's just me.

 

https://whipplesuperchargers.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=184

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But you also will have everyone that will expect it to run 10's like a Hellcat BECAUSE it has a blower, and it wont. I think the heads and cam option would get you alot more money when it looks stock otherwise.

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So torn!!!!!!! lol. I'm glad I have about 6 weeks cause I still don't know what to do, but I'm doing something. Anybody have input on centrifugals?? Is it a little cheaper, ( the unit), so I can maybe redirect some of that savings into drop ins?

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So torn!!!!!!! lol. I'm glad I have about 6 weeks cause I still don't know what to do, but I'm doing something. Anybody have input on centrifugals?? Is it a little cheaper, ( the unit), so I can maybe redirect some of that savings into drop ins?[/quote

 

While I love my big hp na motor.....if I were going to do it again with a mind for streetability and stock type idle and running characteristics.....I would prolly go with the whipple. Easier to put on, makes more power, makes more power while remaining very street friendly. And lastly....if you decide to sell...you can get a good chunk of your money back with a blower lot....not so much with heads and cam

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Whipple all day long. Talk to AJ I got a great deal on the price compared to everywhere else I checked with. Install took about 1.5 days because we took our time and I had an issue with the spacer for the pulley/idler bracket being incorrect for my application. The best part is for the street you don't notice a difference till you stump on the throttle and all hell breaks loose.

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I lucked out. A.J. will be tuning at a shop 20 minutes from me on Thursday the 14th. I'm meeting with him in the morning to discuss all my options and budget. So, I'll see what I learn from him and make decisions accordingly.

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Damn, $4400 for the cam and install?

i know right. Then the additional $2200 for long tubes, mids, and installation. Have to do the LTs in my opinion if your doing cam. Tomorrow I'll find out what it'll cost for a base unit Procharger with drop ins, LTs and install will get me. Forget cam and DEFINITELY forget heads. I really don't think the head work is needed at this level. If, and this is a big IF, I can save some labor cost being I may do drop ins, then maybe I'll do the cam too. However I do not see that happening since they obviously don't have to touch the cam when doing the Pistons and vice versa.

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Met with AJ this morning. Let me start by saying the guy took a break from tuning a supercharged viper V10 motor to talk to me and my wife. Dudes a very nice guy. Took his time, explained everything, gave me options, and of course his expert opinions. Talk about doing the job the right way from the beginning. He really treats your ride as if it were his.

 

Anyway, I see myself having three options;

 

1. Cam, long tubes, high flows, push rods, lifters, tune = approx 60 HP/$6600ish

 

2. Whipple, HIS package complete kit, not Whipples. His comes with a higher output fuel pump, larger injectors, and a few other extras, tune, long tubes, high flows, keep the boost at 6, conservative on the tune as to run it safe. Approx 160 hp/$10,000ish.

 

3. His Whipple package above, forged connecting rods and pistons, long tubes, high flows, blower cam, turn up the boost, tune. Over 200 hp/$16,000ish

 

1a. Approx $110/HP

2b. Approx $63/HP

3c. Approx $64-80/HP depending on boost levels.

 

What I like what he said is that if I just wanted to go with the Whipple and be done with it I could. He'd tune it conservatively at 6 pounds and the bottom end would be fine. Then in the future when I want to turn up the boost and do the bottom end, he wouldn't charge me labor on the cam. Or if I wanted to do cam, he wouldn't charge labor on the connecting rods and pistons. So I have all my options open. He has a 392 coming in this week form California. He's worked on the car before. He wants me to come down and check it out, see it, hear it. It's what he said he'd do to my car. What I thought was really nice of him, besides the invite, he told me to TAKE MY TIME. Don't rush it.

 

So, I'll most likely go option number 2. Waiting for the money to get here, next 4-6 weeks should be here. Then I'll go from there. In a year or two when I want to turn it up, I'll have the cash to do it then.

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Good choice. 

 

The first time you smash the loud pedal and the ass end is stepping 45° out and you have to change your shorts, you may decide it's plenty lol

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lol! Thanks all. Yeah AJ definitely is a very nice AND extremely knowledgable guy. As I get closer to this build, toward the end of February/beginning of March, I'll update with posts and pics. I can't wait!

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I originally asked him about putting on a Procharger. I was surprised by his analytical explanation as to not. He said if it were a 6.1 motor he would. However being its a 6.4, the intake, I believe where the throttle bolts up, has an angle different than that of the 6.1, and because of that the airflow entering the manifold tends to feed cylinders 1,3,5,and 7 a little more than 2,4,6 and 8. With the centrifugal it exacerbates it even more by its designed operation principle of forcing more air into the intake, and ultimately down to the cylinders. Therefore he stated a PD blower, specifically Whipple, and he mentioned, not sure which other one, I think Magnuson or Kenne Bell, would not give that effect because in essence your replacing the entire intake, therefore all of the cylinders are being fed equally right from the get go. Dude knows his shit. I'm lucky and honored to have met him and have his shop within 20 minutes of my home.

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