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Tout

Kb 3.6Lc And 4.2Lc Blowers

488 posts in this topic

I thought I would start this topic so anyone wanting to use the KB 3.6LC or 4.2LC blower could get information to see if it is realy what they need or want. To date there are only a hand full of cars to gather data and less [3] that have been to the track and are going to be raced ,all three are challengers.

 

First car is Jim's [Rubble] to date it is the first 3.6LC to run in the high 9's

Second car is Todds [Poolman] to date I think the car is in the high 10's

Third car is Linda's [FF car] testing this weekend 8/5/11

 

The 3.6LC or 4.2LC create some challenges that are not simple to solve and can be expensive if wanting to get into the 9 second range, I hope JIM and Todd will post in along with Linda what the cars were set up with and the changes they make to get the most out of the cars.

 

My first impression of the 3.6LC is that it is NOT a street blower and is a waste of time and money if someone wants a show piece, the 2.8LC serves that purpose just fine. Getting 1000+ Hp is the easy part, getting the Tq @ 900+ to hook is NOT.

 

I will post up on Linda's car as we go to the track, please do not use this thread as a KB bashing or mine is better .

Tout

 

Walt is running a 3.6 on his 426 Charger. A guy over on CT is also running a 426 + 3.6 and just ran a 10.12.

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Like I said a hand full of builds, the charger has yet to show times and the guy on CT, who????? Any time slips??? Lots of dyno bragers.

Tout

 

Yea, he posted it over in the 10 second forum. Haven't heard if Walt's been to the track this year. I know he ran a 10.5 with his 2.8.

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Walter Warner is a good guy. I did allot of business with him while at PPP. I will call him tomorrow and see if he has been to the track with it yet.

 

Tout, you mentioned 4.2L LC in the subject........................

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On my car changing from the Hoosier 28 x 10 on a 17" rim to 29.5 x 10.5 on a 15" rim helped apply more of the power to the track. I know Tim Barth did a lot of tuning to control power throughout the 1/4 mile as well. Without all the hard work of Tim and Todd at Mr. Norm's my car would not be close to where it is already.

 

I plan to start running as often as possible in Bradenton near my home after the Mopar Nationals later this month. Especially after we cool down some.

 

I can say the power output feels constant right from the launch. The car feels as though it never misses a beat and pulls constantly and is smooth the entire pass. There are certainly still changes to be made in order to get the best out of the car. Tim feels taller gears in the rear (maybe 4.55??) would help. Right now I just want to get some time in the seat on the track.

 

I also agree that set-up to make 1000rwhp and 1000 lb.ft. torque the car is lots of power to try to manage on the street even under the best possible conditions. There are very good reasns not to drive a race car on the street.

 

For comparison of specs to Linda:

 

422 cu. in @ 9:1 CR

Oversized intake and exhaust valves

175 shot of N2O with progressive controller

Paramount Performance 8.8 rear w/ 3.55 gears

DSS 1400 extreme duty axles

JW TH400 transmission with 3500 RPM race converter

50/50 Water and Methanol spray into intake

Lakewood suspension

trunk mount icebox

MT ET drag 29.5 x 10.5 x 15" mounted and screwed to Bogart 15" x 9.5" GT wheels

 

and what Andy says less the AFCO Drag Pak shock set-up.

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Afco

ggg.jpg

 

 

8.8 BB Rear

hg.jpg

 

ERL 423ci Shortblock with O-ringed block, coated pistons and Carrillo rods

imj.jpg

 

PPP Race Camshaft

 

PPP Stage III Heads with coated chambers and Dual valve-springs

rubbel008.jpg

rubbel009.jpg

 

J Winters TH400 Transmission

 

3.6L KB

 

The rest is up to Jim to complete.

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whats with the giant convertors?

 

I don't get it even on the Mr. Norms site it clearly says stock stall.

 

1800 is all you need with all the tq.

I think the 426 with a 3.6 should go in the 8's easy since the 6.1 and the 2.8 can run in the 9's for have the price.

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John FYI

 

"Of course, the power and torque curves of your motor will have a huge effect on stall speed. Generally speaking, engines that produce more low-end torque will bump the stall speed to a higher rpm. Conversely, the same converter will stall to a lower rpm behind a less torquey, higher-winding engine. Converter companies often designate the former as “big-block” and the latter “small-block.” When you buy a typical converter that’s rated at 2,000-2,500-rpm stall, that rating is meant to span a variety of motors with different power curves. Scott Miller of TCI points out his company’s 12-inch Saturday Night Special converters typically stall at 1,600-1,800 rpm behind a 325-375 lb-ft “small-block” and up to 2,000 rpm behind a 400-450 lb-ft “big-block.” Sure, they’ll stall even higher behind a torquier motor, but they’re intended for mild, conservatively cammed motors."

 

Read more: http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/selecting_right_torque_converter/index.html#ixzz1U7Wy2lb8

 

Mine is flashed ( meant to operate at wot) at 3500 RPM.

Converters can be rated different ways as explained in the above article.

As these 3.6L builds are just getting to the track, it will take time to reach the full potential of the larger SC/engine combo's. Give us some time to get things worked out and then we should have an idea what they do.

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Also, the 426 is not an advantage over the 6.1L when it comes to making power. The supercharger determines the max hp of the setup. A 6.1 or even a 5.7 with a 3.6L KB can make just as much power as a 440 with a 3.6L KB. The only advantage of the larger motors is that it takes less boost to make the same power. I personally am not a fan of twin-screws for the simple fact that hooking up at the track is so damn difficult. Add cubic inches on top of that and it becomes even more difficult. I do know that Rubbel and Tout are both running low boost at the track and then adding nitrous. You can make the same power by increasing the boost and not spraying, but the charge temp will be higher and hooking up once again becomes very difficult at high boost. With low boost and spray, they can launch off the line and then spray once the tire is hooking. This makes for really fast times, but very inconsistent.

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getting the Tq @ 900+ to hook is NOT [easy].

 

Great info in this thread, Tout. I come from a Turbo world and this Maggie is my first foray into superchargers... The instant torque is nice, but it is a bitch to work with at the track and I'm nowhere near the torque levels you guys are pushing.

 

The centri and turbo guys definitely have an advantage at the track.

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Right now thecentrificals and turbo's have an easier launch, but the twin screws still need time to figure out what works best off the line. Right now some track time is needed for T&T.

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If I were building a pure race car I would not go with a SC. There are just better options out there. Not knocking those how have.

I love the looks of a SC sitting on the engine but looks don't make you go fast.

 

Part of the fun is the chase though so doing the tuning and seeing what works and what don't could be fun for folks.

I know I like to watch it all unfold. Good luck guys and thanks for sharing with all of us.

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Yes Next tuesday heading to Ilinois to pick up my car and trailer. Then thursday on to Columbus. I did not preregister so want to get there first thing Friday. Plan to spend some time seeing the sights and also run the 10.00 ET bracket. Bill Schurr provided the DSS 1400 hp extreme duty two piece axles for me so we are ready to go. Looking forward to seeing this event.

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Thanks Mike -It's good to see we can have 4 psts in a row all positive lol

 

Really looking forward to seeing all the cars ( especially some old funny cars )

 

I'm starting to feel like I'm 16 all over again!!

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