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Speedy

Impacted by SC bearing issue

50 posts in this topic
On ‎7‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 3:03 PM, Speedy said:

Always a behind the scenes story and a "couple" is probably about right ;)  Well I know of more than a couple already so I'm not going to argue with you about it.

You remember Karl had to have his bypass locked open on his big KB.  He told us about it at the TX Mile.  No boost on the street at all.  That was a 4.2 KB, totally different animal, 4.5 Whipple bypass for the HC is light years ahead of the ancient KB bypass.

Dude here with the Green car and the 4.0L Whipple had to put a pulley on there so big they had to build a pocket in his hood for it to fit. If you are talking about Roomraider (Frank) again a totally different animal, bypass is ancient history also in comparison.

 

Hellcat 2.4L blower

Demon 2.7L blower

Cobra Jet uses a 2.9L Whipple.

Copo Camaro uses a 2.9L Whipple.

Drag Pak Challenger (SC Version) 2.9L Whipple

There's a pattern, and it ain't bigger is better.

This has already been explained to you by someone far more knowledgeable on the subject than Me or You.

I never said bigger is better.

 

But back on topic, got my SC swapped out today to the new P/N 68271244AG.  Quiet as a mouse.  We'll see how it does over time.  I wasn't overly concerned about the noise on the original, but SRT has stated this P/N was specifically developed to solve the problem so I figured I'd get it changed out to be current.  Took the tech right at 2 hours.  Did a fantastic job even for my OCD standards.  Couldn't even tell any work had been done when I went back to talk to them wrapping up.

 

 

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23 hours ago, Speedy said:

Which DS did you go with?  That's next on my list.  I just did the rear diff brace today.  I was thinking of a DSS 4" AL but several folks have said they cause vibrations?

 

I have no doubt the 4.5L Whipple on that guy's car runs fast at the track, WOT is where it would shine.  I'd just be curious how much boost he gets on the street for pump gas, that's a whole different ball game.

 

Karl's car would run over 200MPH at the Mile with his big KB, but like I said, ZERO boost on the street with the locked open bypass.  Kinda useless if you ask me.

If the 4.5 Whipple is using the elecrically controlled bypass then it should have fairly good street manners I would think, at least better than a big KB where the bypass is just looking for vacuum.

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I think that's the key. Does Whipple use an electronic bypass rather than vacuum? Does the H/C tuning allow manipulation of the bypass? These are the $64K questions. 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Speedy said:

I give up lol.  Go put a 4.5L blower on your car and lemme know how it does on the street.

Good for you ! lol I'm not putting anything on my car, staying just like it came with a warranty.

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2 hours ago, Jack SickSRT said:

I went with DSS Aluminum and no Whipple lmao

You got any vibrations or anything?  Trying to decide on the DSS Al or Demon shaft.

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No Vibrations at all I can't tell it from the stock one ride wise . Stay away from carbon fiber seen a few blow up; the guys switched to Aluminum and it holds the power .

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^^ Cool, you probably need to run 19 or 20 psi to break even on the power it takes to turn the blower though.  Takes 80HP just to turn the factory 2.4L Hellcat blower

 

:P

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I am trying to figure out why the power to spin the blower is relevant to anything except efficiency. Of course the bigger blower would be less efficient, but as long as the net at the wheels is increased then you've accomplished your aim. Of course the bigger blower has higher parasitic loss to turn the rotors, but as the RPM is cranked up, that loss begins to equalize as the smaller blower spins faster to produce the same boost as the bigger blower. I think Dodge hit a pretty sweet spot as 80 HP of parasitic loss to generate 11.6PSI is pretty damn good (much better than the industry average as I understand it, though I am not sure Eaton, Whipple, and KB provide much specific data on the subject. 

I still think the secret sauce in in the electronic bypass. And I am still curious how it translates on the Whipple. I know the Magnuson and EForce TVS2650 blowers maintain the electronic bypass and Magnuson says that the parasitic loss is only 1/3HP at 60MPH (no boost). I am sure Whipple has this sorted as well though it'll certainly have a bit more loss with the bypass open. 

I guess the Corvette folks are a bit upset that Dodge build a good bit of headroom into the Hellcat system and Chevy apparently did not with the LT4. I think the numbers at the track and the success folks have had at turning up the wick on the cats bear this out. Maybe making the 4.5 even harder to justify. In know the TVS2650 is making my decision as to where I may go next a bit tougher. Yes the 2.9 Whipple is nice, but the TVS blowers street manners are so impeccable that I am not sure I want another twin screw. 

http://corvettec7fiasco.blogspot.com/2014/10/efficiency-of-dodge-hellcat.html

 

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Jay, I got the dampened DSS shaft and have not had a single noticeable difference in sound, ride or anything else. I did the 3.09 gear and have a little more noise but nothing concerning. 

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Well I joined this forum to call out ChargerRob

 

 

Hello from Texas. Well today I got a message on my Instagram asking if my name was Rob or more specifically ChargerRob. Well my name is Billy but most know me as The Cursed Hellcat 

https://www.instagram.com/the_cursed_hellcat

Rob decided he was going to post here and on another Forum that my car was His own. 
Here are the screen shots sent to me  

Here is me and My Whipple Hellcat 

 

  Take credit for your own hard work not someone else's 

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On 7/24/2017 at 5:34 PM, BayouTiger said:

I am trying to figure out why the power to spin the blower is relevant to anything except efficiency. Of course the bigger blower would be less efficient, but as long as the net at the wheels is increased then you've accomplished your aim. Of course the bigger blower has higher parasitic loss to turn the rotors, but as the RPM is cranked up, that loss begins to equalize as the smaller blower spins faster to produce the same boost as the bigger blower. I think Dodge hit a pretty sweet spot as 80 HP of parasitic loss to generate 11.6PSI is pretty damn good (much better than the industry average as I understand it, though I am not sure Eaton, Whipple, and KB provide much specific data on the subject. 

I still think the secret sauce in in the electronic bypass. And I am still curious how it translates on the Whipple. I know the Magnuson and EForce TVS2650 blowers maintain the electronic bypass and Magnuson says that the parasitic loss is only 1/3HP at 60MPH (no boost). I am sure Whipple has this sorted as well though it'll certainly have a bit more loss with the bypass open. 

I guess the Corvette folks are a bit upset that Dodge build a good bit of headroom into the Hellcat system and Chevy apparently did not with the LT4. I think the numbers at the track and the success folks have had at turning up the wick on the cats bear this out. Maybe making the 4.5 even harder to justify. In know the TVS2650 is making my decision as to where I may go next a bit tougher. Yes the 2.9 Whipple is nice, but the TVS blowers street manners are so impeccable that I am not sure I want another twin screw. 

http://corvettec7fiasco.blogspot.com/2014/10/efficiency-of-dodge-hellcat.html

 

I think it matters Chuck.  It takes power to turn the blower, so you have to make up for that plus additional to make power.  The question on the electronic bypass on the Hellcat is material, if they can use that it solves the lock the bypass open on the street problem, but not sure it solves the make enough power to overcome parasitic losses without being too much for pump gas and blow up the motor problem.  The Hellcat forum was littered with posts of people that jumped on the 4.5L Whipple but I can't find any recent posts from anyone that got one and saw a few posts about engines going poof.  One guy sent his car over here from somewhere in the middle east and was like an Instagram junkie with all the pics of his mods, new motor, Whipple, then radio silence.

I just think anyone going that big for a blower on a street car should be real clear on what all it entails.  Me personally I'd stick to no more than a 2.9 or 3.2 (if available) and call it done and focus on cooling and putting the power down.

Seeing some efficiency maps from the blower manufacturers, pump gas tests with pulley sizes, as well as how much power the blower itself consumes would go a long way to helping folks make decisions.  Seems most are pretty tight lipped with that info and the last I checked the 4.5 was only a "tuner" kit, so if it's good for 93 octane why not make a tune to go with it?

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It doesn't take much HP to turn the blower with the bypass open. I only say it's immaterial as long as you are netting a bunch more power than you loseI realize your point is that the bigger the blower the greater the parasitic loss. Same reason the smaller blower will also lose efficiency as you up the boost. 

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Yeah its an interesting issue.....need data to run Calc to know for sure.  With the stock 2.4 making so much power with small upgrades though I'm not sure the juice would be worth the squeeze......for a street oriented car at least.  Would be curious what JB thinks?

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On 7/24/2017 at 8:07 PM, RonP said:

Jay, I got the dampened DSS shaft and have not had a single noticeable difference in sound, ride or anything else. I did the 3.09 gear and have a little more noise but nothing concerning. 

Thanks Im gonna reach out to Frank and see whats what.

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