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Knownman

Anybody Else Think About Buying Cmr Software?

52 posts in this topic

There are a lot of smart cookies around here. I don't think I'm the only guy wanting to get deeper into this.

 

Just to clarify, I was not trying to indicate anyone was lacking intelligence or that learning CMR is impossible. Please forgive me if it came across that way. It certainly is not impossible to learn since others and myself are tuning with it.

 

I just wanted to point out my experience tuning cars using the software you saw demonstrated on Two Guys (HPTuners) and how it is a "walk in the park" compared to the CMR tuning so that you would not have false expectations if you purchased a CMR license.

 

Additionally, the fact that $2500 is not really chump change for most and ultimately you may be disappointed especially when you find out that there are no "live tuning" features like you saw on the show and documentation on how to use the CMR software is scarce.

 

I agree with Scott's comments about the fact that there are a limited number of CMR tuners for a reason. Quite a few highly qualified GM and Ford tuners have purchased the CMR software for DCX and then basically threw in the towel due to the complexity. Fortunately I know a few of these tuners/shops and have been able to help them avoid a total loss by onsite or remote tuning for them.

 

With that being said I did post some videos I made showing very basic CMR information and would be glad to provide assistance to you if you decide to purchase the software.

 

As far as slow responses from your tuner, you will need to work that out with him/her. I am fairly confident you won't hear any OST customers saying that.

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I can vouch for Mike and his quick responses. He's quick with the turn around on revisions, as well as being fanatical about every aspect of my tunes. Whether it's DD manners, or my race tunes, he's been relentless. If you're looking for a tuner who stays on top of it, you should give OST a try before you lay down $2500... After watching Mike work in the CMR software, I know I would have a hell of a time trying to tune my own car. I'd also be afraid I'd blow my own car up, GSM style. lol.

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I basically said goodbye to my tuner. Actually he just never returned my calls or emails. It was a very frustrating deal that lasted more than a year and it's still not right. He always had a new excuse but the reality is he was one man with too many people needing his attention.

 

I've also had some tuners who are on this forum be really slow or didnt respond at all, in returning inquiries. Add to it the fact that I really hate the idea of spending essentially 700 bucks to have a remote tune done with time on the wheels providing the logistics of that could even be worked out and agreed upon. The other option is to drive quite a ways away and take a few days off work for a location tune. And still spend 500 to 700.

 

I sent out a copy of my tune to another listed tuner in this thread who claimed he could look at the cars issues. Made it sound like it would be a piece of cake. He basically never responded after he got the logs and tune except to say he was now too busy.

 

That accounts for 3 of the "known" tuners plus my original tuner who is reputed with KenneBells.

 

So " I am frustrated" and I haven't even made any additional mods since the KB went on. Wide open throttle no problem. 3rd or 4th gear and try and make a pass, boost drops in and ST Knock and timing get pulled. Not every time but enough to get me nervous.

 

Anyways it's hard to read about all these great people and what they did on this car or that and then I try and book a tuning session and I get the same let down.

It's a shame.

 

Im just kind of wishing something like that SCT would come available at some point soon.

 

 

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Lots of good info in this thread. Some of the tuners just get too much back log I think. Unfortunately the tools we have to work with on the Dodge platform just aren't up to par with the likes of HPTuners and SCT. I've watched my buddy easily tune his Z06 Vette himself because the software make everything extremely simple. If you understand motors you can pretty much tune the car.

 

The things I've seen from the CMR for our platform is really strange stuff. Just when the settings start to make sense you notice changing one thing that should be independent ends up having an adverse affect somewhere else.

 

Add to this the fact that CMR can not access everything really needed and throw in the neural network and you have some real complicated stuff on your hands.

 

If there were some competition in this market for the Dodge vehicles, no doubt the tuning software would get much better. What we have is better than nothing at all though and in the right hands cars run very good with what's available.

 

You also don't really need a dyno to tune the car unless you just don't feel comfortable going WOT on the hwy. The WOT stuff is the easy part anyway, it's the part throttle drivability that's tricky and takes experience.

 

In my opinion it's just not worth $2500 to tune my car myself and hope I can figure it all out without having to bug one of the known tuners to death with questions since most of the tables aren't labeled, or even fully understood. I also have a gut feeling there is recycled code in these things from cars of the past that isn't even used, but that's a completely different topic.

 

You need to find a tuner that will spend the time to work with you on these things without unreasonable delays and who can send you enough information to understand what they need. As a customer you have an obligation to provide detailed feed back on how the car feels and detailed data logs that include AFR which is where most customers fall short.

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2500 is a lot of dough.

 

I was shocked when I heard that people were paying 5K for a PCM swap on top of the supercharger for 2011+ models. That's why I was wondering.

 

 

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I feel your pain!

 

Car is not right after 3 tuners. They are slow or don't respond. Many hours logging, downloading, uploading, logging and dollars spent without the results you are looking for.

 

I went through three tuners as well. I knew what I wanted but they would not or didn't know how to fix my tune. I met OSTMIKE on LxF and I believe I'm OSTMike's first forum customer. My local tuner claimed he could make more power than ANY other tuner. I asked Mike if he wanted to do a tuner face off on this guys dyno. So my local tuner could see the dyno curves and Mike got logs. He made about 15 more HP than the local guy. The local tuner was some pissed off because Mike locked his tunes so the local tuner couldn't how Mike made the power. lol

 

Mike has ALWAYS been responsive and helpful as I've gone down this path. He is too modest to say he has fixed many a tune of a boosted or big cam car when the other tuner has left the guy high and dry.

 

IMHO, try a fourth tuner.

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I talked to Mike last summer. We just couldn't put together a schedule for the tune so I let it go.

 

He seemed cool and responsive but until now I had no other feedback on him or his shop.

 

Maybe I'll make the call again and see if we can't work something out.

 

 

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If anyone is considering this I was commissioned by Diablosport a few years ago to produce a CMR dealer guide for the DCX platform. I also started a video series that stopped after the second video due to lack of interest. The videos are still out on Youtube and will at least give you a feel for the CMR software and a few tips. Pay no attention to the guy talking - he will put you to sleep :)

 

CMR Dealer Startup Video1 -

 

CMR Dealer Startup Video 2 -

THIS IS FANTASTIC INFORMATION ! :)

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I may not be a Hemi tuner but I've tuned everything from Guided Missile Launching Systems to the most advanced digital cameras in production.

 

I've worked on 410 sprints to go carts. I studied electrical engineering and know how to build gas tanks out of flat sheet metal in aluminum and steel.

 

This is learnable if the access is there.

 

 

As someone who is extremely computer savvy and who is used to figuring stuff out by reverse engineering, I have no doubt that a smart person like yourself (or myself, or Speedy) could ramp themselves up to be a functional tuner if given enough tune samples and time. Will you make mistakes? Sure. Will it cost you a motor? Maybe. But one has to learn somehow.

 

Of course, problem is -- no one is going to teach this knowledge to anyone. All the tuners have a niche market, and the fewer there are, the more money they make.

 

Strangely, after watching the videos I'm drawn to this even more. However, I have huge time constraints, so it's more cost effective for me to simply pay someone to tune my car than to invest $2500 into the software that I'll need to tinker with for hours and hours before being even remotely functional.

 

BTW -- thanks OSTMIKE for the videos. Please reconsider making more and posting them up!!

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I talked to Mike last summer. We just couldn't put together a schedule for the tune so I let it go.

 

He seemed cool and responsive but until now I had no other feedback on him or his shop.

 

Maybe I'll make the call again and see if we can't work something out.

 

Yes, Mike is a busy man. He has a full time high level I.T. job, committed to his family and a dyno/tuning business.

 

If you are willing to log his tune revisions on a Trinity with AFR in a timely fashion. He can get you fixed up quickly.

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The more people know about it the more knowledge will be out there. Guides, videos, you name it. Sure it will still make sense to pay a top flight tuner if you've got a huge build, but your basic stroker etc. could be done.

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I talked to Mike last summer. We just couldn't put together a schedule for the tune so I let it go.

 

He seemed cool and responsive but until now I had no other feedback on him or his shop.

 

Maybe I'll make the call again and see if we can't work something out.

Just curious, why don't you run the KB tune? I had shared my dyno data on this site some time ago and the feedback I got was that it was a pretty good tune (was KB tune). Very stable and consistent A/F. If I could get another tune to further improve the performance I would certainly look into but got the impression that there was not a whole lot left to improve. Maybe I misunderstood?

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Long story short,

 

Bought a used blower from an Auto car. Hypertech handheld couldn't be rematched to a new cal id despite Kenne Bell telling me it could prior to the purchase. Sold my Pedator cause I thought I could use the stock Hypertech, then bought a Trinity instead of a locked out overpriced Predator from KenneBell and wanted to be able to log all PIDS plus AFR from LC1.

 

Impossible to get a tune from KB without buying their tuner which is locked out from alterations.

 

And the stock tune is quite relaxed from what I've been told.

 

 

And you are locked out with the KenneBell tuner.

 

Did I mention you can't tune off of the original Predator or Hypertech that Kenne Bell sells?

 

 

 

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And you are locked out with the KenneBell tuner.

 

Did I mention you can't tune off of the original Predator or Hypertech that Kenne Bell sells?

I was aware that I was locked out but not sure how much more aggressive I could be. My A/F is pretty consistent at 11.3 which I have been told is probably not something I would necessarily want to change. I am sure that my spark advance especially at shift points could stand for some improvement. I also want reliability and do not really want to be on the hairy edge. Everytime I drag race this car I worry about grenadng the motor. What kind of times were you turning with your custom tunes?

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I actually don't race the car at all.

 

I haven't seen a track yet. just street driving. I don't actually know how much HP or TQ she has.

 

The car is my only hobby I have left now that I have a little guy who just turned 14 months.

 

I don't get anywhere near the amount of time I want to spend on it.

 

I don't really know the difference between the tunes. I have heard quite a few people say it's pretty decent from KB and others say the exact opposite. I never had a factory tune but I have the sticker which says I am CARB compliant.

 

I've run her with 8lbs and 9lbs. Now she's at 8 because I got nervous about the tune. And I don't drive it so it's not like it's earth shattering to have the extra juice. I just like being able to walk a Z06 at will which the car can do on the 8lb tune.

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Im sorry I have yet to see a KB tune that couldnt be improved on. And I have about 12 Kbs under my belt. Just my 0.2 BTW knownman I have a 14 month old too. And a 21 yr old in the marines.. Woops..lol BUt he's awesome..

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Im sorry I have yet to see a KB tune that couldnt be improved on. And I have about 12 Kbs under my belt. Just my 0.2 BTW knownman I have a 14 month old too. And a 21 yr old in the marines.. Woops.. lol BUt he's awesome..

 

Marines, we are everywhere... Semper Fi...

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Im sorry I have yet to see a KB tune that couldnt be improved on. And I have about 12 Kbs under my belt. Just my 0.2

I am not a tuner and only tell you what others have said after looking at my dyno sheets. So you offering your services? Most tuners I talked to wont give me a tune since they did not install the SC. I am willing to pay anyone that knows what there doing to get an improved tune if there are improvement opportunities.

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I am not a tuner and only tell you what others have said after looking at my dyno sheets. So you offering your services? Most tuners I talked to wont give me a tune since they did not install the SC. I am willing to pay anyone that knows what there doing to get an improved tune if there are improvement opportunities.

 

Thats crazy .. Contact my tuner His name is Johan. diablotoona@gmail.com You will have to know how to data log to get it done correctly. Tell him scott sent ya As long as you can data log you'll be just fine..

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I am not a tuner and only tell you what others have said after looking at my dyno sheets. So you offering your services? Most tuners I talked to wont give me a tune since they did not install the SC. I am willing to pay anyone that knows what there doing to get an improved tune if there are improvement opportunities.

 

I am not sure who told you that wouldn't give you a tune because they didn't install the SC. Since we are primarily a tuning shop (and not an install shop) 90% of the vehicles I tune had the installs/builds done somewhere else. I sent you a PM.

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Sad part is crysler has always been this way with there computer programing. You decript and are hit with a wall. They say ford and chevy you decript and get coding notes or stuff is labled instead of numbered. Wich is why from what I gathered hptunners and all the diy took off for chevy and ford and dodge was left behind. I'll still be a hard headed dodge guy but it is what it is.

 

Josh

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Sign me up for AJ's class and OST's videos lol

 

I'd be all for self tuning my car if it was $1,000 and only a couple months of learning... but it doesn't sound like that's the case with CMR.

 

FWIW, Johan has my KB running really well... if you guys don't have your issues fixed yet (I know this thread is old).

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