31 replies to this topic

[mjf6866]

Has anyone done the regrease on input shaft splines themselves on the early build 6 speeds? I really don't want some kid at the dealer doing mine and I don't want to have to leave it with the dealer. Mines a garage queen and has not seen rain.

I think my clutch is hanging a bit. When I release the clutch, it almost seems like it's not even pressure all the way up (hard to explain) and on occasion, it's tough to get into gear. Once it's warm it's not problem, but the clutch feel is just weird. When I put her in gear, I can sometimes feel the "thud" like the clutch isn't fully disengaged. It doesn't lurch forward or anything. I'm at 13,500 miles now.

So anyways, I have a tech friend that works at a Benz dealer and was gonna see if he wanted to take a look but wasn't sure what was all involved.

Thanks

[Chally]

If he's compitent enough to tech at a merc dealership, he shouldn't have a problem pulling a tranny and greasing a shaft. Badum tsss

[dodgetime]

your explanation of symptoms don't seem address what the Star Case about ie. the grease and in/out of gear while parked. Something about type of grease and the gear selector shaft very unwilling to rerlease.  Not clutch related as I see it. (mines a 10 never had any probs)

 

I would do everything I could before taking it in unless you think your symptoms are the stuck shaft case symptoms.  Check your brake/clutch fluid reservoir for possible air incursion or contamination. replace or refill as needed, Bleed/pump the clutch pedal 20 or so time or more if it seems to help.  Also for the cold operation of the trans, work the shifter a few times through the first four gears, loosens up the syncros etc.  Until the trans is warm don't force the gear shifts let it fall in by waiting for the rpm and speed of the trans to match up.

 

One more thought, if you do end up taking it in for the Star Case, if the trans is pulled have them eyeball/pull the pilot bearing and just replace it new. I had one disintegrate while running the quarter, it still worked but it would intermittently thud like you say. When we pulled the trans the bearing was mostly missing and had taken a chunk of my first friction plate on it way out the housing, never really had any idea til torn down but new I was lucky. GL 

[mjf6866]

thanks for the input guys.  does anyone know of a how to on bleeding the clutch fluid?  if it uses the same as the brakes, how does that come into play?  i've bleed brakes before (not on this car), just never brakes AND clutch...

[dodgetime]

brakes and clutch use the same resevoir so just make sure its full to the max mark with clean ATF+4 fluid.  The clutch is easy, just pump the clutch pedal up to 200 times (usually after clutch replacement) or until the feedback is firm at full travel ( no floping at top of traval or minimal anyway) that's about it for the hydraulics circuit.  Any other engagement issues will be in the clutch pressure plate, friction plate area 

 

MY MISTAKE.    Use full synthetic brake fluid Dot 3 in the brake/clutch res. NOT ATF+4  SORRY MY MISTAKE.  I use Prestone brand any full synthetic Dot3 will work fine

 

ATF+4 is for transmission only..... auto or manual.

[mjf6866]

ok, i do have slight "flop" at the top of the clutch pedal.  i keep thinking of cable driven clutches which needed some play...i take this this car should not?  i never noticed it before, but then again, i wasnt really analyzing it to death like i am now after having the shift issues like i did after beating on it.

 

also checked my fluid and while cold, i am sitting a bit below the "MAX" marker on the reservoir.  i'll have to get some dot 3 and see if filling to the top takes that little bit of play i have in the clutch pedal.

 

so basically, i dump the DOT3 in, put the cap back on and pump the clutch?

 

thanks again for the responses

[dodgetime]

sounds like your pedal travel is fine, mine has no top travel but I have relatively new plates and bearing in so it's firm top to floor.  A little excess pedal flop will occur top end as the clutch plates wear away or your bearing takes a hike.  Fluid level sounds fine also, mainly so it has enough fluid to keep it from pulling air into the circuit from the reservoir bottom, so near max fill mark is good.

 

I'd get the Benz tech opinion or see what the dealer thinks cause next IMO is going under checking possibly pulling the trans.  Sorry not much help,  Fill in the blanks as you find things out here in this thread GL . 

 

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[mjf6866]

I appreciate the responses! So what other symptoms would occur if the throw out bearing was going bad?

[dodgetime]

not sure, but I would assume you would see some clutch/brake fluid leaking if the throwout had a defect pretty resilient simple apparatus there, but it could give some of the problems you have explained, only way to see it is drop the trans

 

I was speaking of the pilot bearing before, kind of a thrust bearing transmission input shaft lines up to

[Sickrbpcp]

Here's the part numbers from the STARR case the bolts are one time so replace all 6, the grease is the grease they started using in early 2010 I guess other than that it is simply clean the plates and mainshaft with mineral spirits apply the grease very damn lightly and reassemble. The problem will also affect the throwout bearing as it is trying to slid on the same damn molasses. I know the guy who discovered and wrote the first STARR still works at a local dealership, but he had been the Viper Tech for years and first one he worked on he knew what the problem was, Viper grease is very thick and high heat since their tranny has to live in an enclosed tunnel get real hot, but in ours never gets warm enough hence the works better when warm. Till then I would "exercise" the clutch a few times when cold and floor it if you aren't doing that now warm it and keep it moving its full path a few times never hurts, big PITA for their mistake but like you no way a dealer is gonna wrench mine (built 2/10), don't think it has that grease but then again I'm low mileage like you so fingers crossed for both of us bro! Bolts (6needed) 06508880AA. Grease packet 05083150AA

[Stricnine]

I had a throwout bearing go bad on mine, the bearing portion that pressed against the clutch "fingers" broke off, the clutch peddle essentially did nothing.  Shifting had to be done by rev-matching to the new gear.

[mjf6866]

oh ok, i doubt the throw out bearing is bad then...what about the pilot bearing...what symptoms if that was going south?

[dodgetime]

pilot bearing, as small as it is does alot.  Mainly it keeps the transmission input shaft aligned to the motor output.  Symptoms are numerous but not necessarily catastrophic, I drove mine around for a few months but I new something was amiss so I took it easy til we could get in there, sure enough the only thing left in it's little home in back of the engine block was the empty bearing race, the rest had vacated the premises. Anyway, if you get into it that deep replace it for grins.if it's gone check all your clutch plates pertinents and such. GL

[Hemi31]

If your pilot beari g took a powder you should be looki g at trans/engine alignment. They normally don't just fall apart.

[dodgetime]

makes sense. I know exactly when the bearing departed, 1-2 shift at the track, but it seemed ok (drivable) so I went on around again hot lap, after a bit of cool down while pulling forward I heard and felt something odd so I went on through the 1/4 not so worried about time.  I drove it for about 3 months and during my aluminum 440 install new bearing and plates added I reckon it was realigned when we put it back together, it's been strong and tight no anomalies like the first had so I wouldn't doubt in my case the possibility of a misalignment, second time charm    maybe aluminum bearing housing

[mjf6866]

ok, i can now describe my issue exactly after experimenting...

 

car is running on level ground meaning i can release the brake, put her in neutral and it wont move.  when i push the clutch in and go to engage 1st gear, before the shifter enters the gate for 1st (not sure if thats what its called) the car will lurch forward with the clutch to the floor until i push harder on the shifter to fully enter the gate and its fully in 1st, clutch still in and the car doesnt move.  so basically if i hold the clutch down, push on the shifter with just enough force it will barely push the car forward unless i get past that "notch" and push harder to get it fully into 1st gear.  i hope that makes sense.

 

it does this cold and fully warm.  other than that when fully warm it shifts pretty damn good while cruising and when i get aggressive with it with the occasional "notchy" 2nd gear feel when i'm not banging gears.

 

is there any possiblity that royal purple's synchromax fluid that i'm running be a bit too thick and cause that?

[BayouTiger]

One thing I can say that a few can relate to, is anything you fool with the clutch and then pump it a couple hundred times, you likely need to pump it about a hundred more. Crazy how many times before it gets right!!!

[Pat McCrotch]

^^^ This first. It isn't the tran fluid. Fluid look clear in reservoir ? Short of a flush/bleed you can empty it with a small baster/large eye dropper thingy and then fill with new. Drive it and just keep repeating till your new fluid container is empty. Sounds as though there is a very slight engagement with clutch depressed and input shaft has a tad of torque on it. TOB needs to give ya a few more mills of travel.

[mjf6866]

^^^ This first. It isn't the tran fluid. Fluid look clear in reservoir ? Short of a flush/bleed you can empty it with a small baster/large eye dropper thingy and then fill with new. Drive it and just keep repeating till your new fluid container is empty. Sounds as though there is a very slight engagement with clutch depressed and input shaft has a tad of torque on it. TOB needs to give ya a few more mills of travel.

 

thanks for the input, Mr McCrotch   my fluid level is right at MAX when hot (and cold for that matter) and i only have 13,400 miles on it.  do you think fresh fluid would do the trick?

[dodgetime]

ok, i can now describe my issue exactly after experimenting...

 

car is running on level ground meaning i can release the brake, put her in neutral and it wont move.  when i push the clutch in and go to engage 1st gear, before the shifter enters the gate for 1st (not sure if thats what its called) the car will lurch forward with the clutch to the floor until i push harder on the shifter to fully enter the gate and its fully in 1st, clutch still in and the car doesnt move.  so basically if i hold the clutch down, push on the shifter with just enough force it will barely push the car forward unless i get past that "notch" and push harder to get it fully into 1st gear.  i hope that makes sense.

 

it does this cold and fully warm.  other than that when fully warm it shifts pretty damn good while cruising and when i get aggressive with it with the occasional "notchy" 2nd gear feel when i'm not banging gears.

 

is there any possiblity that royal purple's synchromax fluid that i'm running be a bit too thick and cause that?

 

yeah, with these symptoms, on an old school car I would definetly be adjusting the mechanical throw-out travel or pedal adjustment.  On our modern cars it's down to fluid level, bleeding and your hydraulic throwout bellows/bearing linked to the pedal.  Sounds like it's not releasing enough pressure on the flywheel and plates thus the lurch and tough to get in gear Sorry to say but if nothing else works a trans drop and inspection of clucth components in order.  I doubt your trans is the ptoblem