49 replies to this topic

[Jay6spdRT]

Ok, I called Chrysler yesterday and filed a formal complaint about the horsepower of my car. I followed that up with an e-mail to the dealer via their online system detailing the issue;



My car does not seem to be making adequate horsepower compared to other R/Ts, or even the factory horsepower rating.

At Leicester I ran a 13.8 quarter mile. I have a six-speed with $1000 track pack, but I personally know of a 12.9 with an automatic R/T on street tires. His is automatic, open differential not limited slip like mine, and he did not pay $1000 extra for an optional track pack.

I also know of other R/Ts that have produced time slips in the 12s.

In researching this - I have recently read an online posting by an SRT engineer that Chrysler introduced something called "Buck/bobble table" into the six speed tunes to make them 'smoother'. Apparently buck/bobble is a timing pull when the car is shifted. Any timing pull will have an adverse effect on straight-line acceleration because timing pulls reduce horse power production.

Frankly, I don't care about smooth. I want performance - Why would I pay $1000 extra for a track pack, only to have Chrysler detune the car via "buck/bobble" so that its slower than R/Ts that were less expensive???

I also ran an online horsepower calculator to estimate crank horsepower based on car weight and ET.

1/4 mile time: 13.8
Trap Speed: 103
Weight of vehicle
with driver (pounds): 4280
Horsepower @ flywheel = 343.45 HP

These engines are rated for a minimum of 376 hp, so the data suggests my engine is making about 8-10% less horsepower than it should be producing.

I am very unhappy with the performance and want something done. Why should my R/T be second rate compared to these other R/Ts in performance? After all, I did not pay a 'discounted' price compared to these other R/Ts. If it's not the buck/bobble, perhaps the 5.7 engine in my car is not manufactured to proper specifications and tolerances? I have filed a formal complaint with Chrysler's customer service. They instructed me that the first step to resolving this problem is contacting the dealer. Thank you.


The 13.8 was a time I ran at Empire Dragway my first visit in May, on street tires. No dyno mode - just traction control turned off at the button.



I have a goal here

That being - to get this buck-bobble shit pulled OFF my car. I don't care if I have to sign a fucking waiver to get it pulled. I don't want some hidden tuning shit hampering my times.

[Boatman]

I respect your efforts but if I learned anything from the SRT guys it's that they do not care. Good luck I hope you get some where but I doubt it.

[Speedy]

Jay, I think you're over reacting and focusing too much on one run. I'd wager, the buck/bobble is not even really affecting your car. If you send me a log I can tell you for sure.

Also, using SRT Engineer posts to help your case will hurt us all in the long run. We were lucky to get that piece of information and now you're using it against them. In the future they'll be even more tight lipped about things like this and leave us all in the dark.

[Dale]

Good luck Jay.

[Jay6spdRT]

Jay, if the buck/bobble is pulling timing, then it definitely hurts ET. I have to shift 3 times on a 1/4 mile run. Doesn't take much to add 0.08 to a 1/4 mile run.

The funny thing is - the dealer commits to a 20 minute response after submission of a service inquiry/complaint. I've yet to get a call over 2 hours later. Wonder if the dealer has contacted Chrysler asking about 'buck/bobble'? I wonder if dealers are even aware of these hidden tables?

[Goehner]

Subscribed for the possible train wreck.

[Jay6spdRT]

What can go wrong? We can't be worse off than we are now.

[Speedy]

Jay, I went and looked at one of your posts from before with the timing. I need to see it more closely, but on your car I can't even see it's pulling very much timing and not for very long. On mine it's more more pronounced and for a much longer duration.

If you had 100% timing on yours, vs. what you have now, I'd wager your ETs wouldn't change at all. Get me a log to look at.

Just to give you an idea of how Chevy handles similar problems....over on the C5 forum a guy had issues with his auto SS Camaro being slow. I mean REAL slow at the track like 15 second quarter mile times. Chevy actually sent an engineer to the guys house with special equipment to hook up and test the car. They eventually found a tuning issue affected certain autos and released an update.

Pretty cool of them. I doubt you'll get as much from Dodge....they have NOT impressed me at all with any type of customer relations on any front.

[Jay6spdRT]

Well, if nothing else - it will likely cause my dealer to spend some time on the phone with Chrysler engineering, and the reverse. If I'm unhappy, I want them to be unhappy too. I'm stubborn and I will keep pushing and pushing and pushing....

I was talking to a guy at the track with an EVO yesterday. He owns several EVOS - his track car, he had tuned for more boost - it made like another 50-60 whp on the dyno, but turned out to be SLOWER by almost 0.5 seconds at the track. Neither his tuner nor he could figure it out.

He contacted his dealer - the dealer looked into it, and found out that there is a hidden "protection" in the onboard computer that if it senses too much torque output, it pulls power to protect the drivetrain. The dealer was able to provide the proper codes/table info to the tuner to eliminate the problem.

I told him that there is NO Dodge dealer anywhere on the east coast that would help a Dodge enthusiast in a similar fashion. Their attitude would basically be - "That is non-standard equipment - fuck you!"

I explained to him that Dodge is the OPPOSITE of the Mitsubishi dealer - they would NOT be helpful, and are totally ANTI-enthusiast. He didn't even realize that 2011 and 2012 Dodge cars aren't tunable. My goal is to 'spread the word around' to car guys that Dodge is not the brand to buy, under the current management.

Given the weather forecast this week (rain, rain and more rain) I doubt I'll be able to provide any logs. Still have to dope out how to hook up my laptop in the car to the Trinity - I don't even have any Diablosport software loaded on my laptop - my laptop is new (end of July) so I've never re-installed any Diablosport programs on it. Usually just bring my Trinity in the house and hook it up to my desktop anyways.

[toofart]

Buck Bobble will be my next forum nickname

[Jay6spdRT]

"Buck Bobble in the 25th Century"

[toofart]

Buck Bobble's inspiration:

[aarcuda]

[StevoHemi]

"Bump" for this Drama Show.

I feel for ya Jim but me thinks, given Dodge's reputation, this is a waste of your time. Dodge execs don't give a rats ass about performance.

Stevo

[Pat McCrotch]

Post removed.

[Jay6spdRT]

Thanks for the info.

[srt5939]

Jay fucken pound them pricks with complaints everyday, thank them for do a shitty job on customer service, ask them to fire Ralph Giles for be such a fucken suck up to corp.
tell them we want to tune and do what ever we want to our cars and they can stick the warranty up there ass.

[shortbus]

I haven't had my buck bobbled since I got married.

[toofart]

^^^

[BACNBLK]

I haven't had my buck bobbled since I got married.

You need to get out more...

I completely understand Jay's frustration and ANGER. But I also agree they ain't gonna do shit about it.


My question is why hasn't there been an aftermarket PCM made that's compatible with the cars systems and allows tuning.
Diablo is trying to crack a code so to speak to tune the PCM but that's only a small portion of what the PCM does. These cars came out in 08. It'll be 5 years for the 2012's. Sometimes it's better to start from scratch. Or is that not possible? I don't understand why it would be.

Maybe a stupid question but I had to throw that out there.


Joe