113 replies to this topic

[345_CHLNGR]

Looks like your tank is empty!!

Oops... !

[Harrison@Stage6]

Why worry about an extra whopping 30hp. when you can throw 1 extra psi of boost at it. Meth is a bandaid. I'm running 1300+rwhp with no meth. My IAT's climb a whole 4 degrees during a 1/4 mile pass. Get a good intercooler and be done with it.

[Illinois Chaos]

you still have tune for it or you will be fowling out plugs once a month with the rich AF. I don't understand the comment don't tune for it.

 

You can't spray shit in the car and not tune for it and expect it to run the same on the same tune.

 

John, you can leave the timing and boost alone, and only tune to a "normal" a/f ratio as if it didnt have alch injection. Note that a "normal" non alch a/f is richer than what is considered a "normal" alch injection a/f, at least a little(in most cases).

[srt8-in-largo]

Quite a polarizing topic.

 

I'm trying to keep a stock bottom together so I run meth/water to help that situation. Mine is a daily driver with 130,000 miles that see's many corners of the country... including some places that don't have 93 octane. If I had a forged bottom, on a race-only car, that would always use 93 or higher... then I might not be a meth user. But none of that is true for me.

 

I had my car tuned without meth, and when I spray I see afr's drop to 10.5... super rich. Out of curiosity I need to turn the meth off and see where the afr's go.

[Illinois Chaos]

you HAVE TO have, at a minimum, some way of tuning fuel. Because when this sprays you will go INSANELY rich, like 7-1 rich on the bigger nozzle. That is rich enough to be dangerous and can cause bore wash

[closeracing]

Why worry about an extra whopping 30hp. when you can throw 1 extra psi of boost at it. Meth is a bandaid. I'm running 1300+rwhp with no meth. My IAT's climb a whole 4 degrees during a 1/4 mile pass. Get a good intercooler and be done with it.

 

What fuel do you run? 

Amazing #'s btw holy shit!

[Harrison@Stage6]

C16

[Truckzilla46]

Yeah I think I won't be adding a meth kit. The deciding factor really comes down to the added things to watch. I appreciate all feedback.

[Speedy]

you HAVE TO have, at a minimum, some way of tuning fuel. Because when this sprays you will go INSANELY rich, like 7-1 rich on the bigger nozzle. That is rich enough to be dangerous and can cause bore wash

 

For water/meth to be effective you typically want to see a 1 point change in AFR.  For example 11.5 without to 10.5 with.  If it's more than that you're likely spraying too much meth.

 

Why worry about an extra whopping 30hp. when you can throw 1 extra psi of boost at it. Meth is a bandaid. I'm running 1300+rwhp with no meth. My IAT's climb a whole 4 degrees during a 1/4 mile pass. Get a good intercooler and be done with it.

 

There's where things can go sideways.  You can't compare a purpose built race vehicle with twin turbos to the average joe that drives the car to work every day with a blower on it.  I thin we'll both agree no intercooler is going to be as good on a supercharged car as a turbo vehicle.  That's not really an answer for us supercharged guys.

 

Water/Meth has it's place, but it is another system that has to be monitored.  If it's worth it to the end user to monitor and maintain the system it will give dividends at the track by not having to buy race fuel, etc.  One would have to accept the risk associated with a system failure at an in opportune time, however.  There are fail safes you can get, as I mentioned before, that release boost at any sign of system problems, but again it's more to deal with.

 

I was gonna do the meth thing for a while, but the more folks I talked to the more suggested just hitting it with a 100 shot at the track and get cooling and power.  I still have to pay $80 for a 5 gal can of race gas though.

 

On the street I've gone WOT a bazillion times on 93 and my engine has been just fine, even in nearly 100 degree ambient temps, so I'm less concerned about all that now than I was back then.  On a stock motor keep the boost down and tune a bit richer for summer, but not too rich, and you'll be good to go.

[closeracing]

[

Ive ran vp110 but was concerned about the o2 sensors. Have you ever had trouble
quote name="Harrison@Stage6"
C16 [/quote]

[Tout]

Anyone running E85-95 gas in their DD car that is SC?

[Harrison@Stage6]

I beg to differ Speedy. Ask Mike Smith how much of a difference he saw between Prochargers "upgraded" intercooler vs our intercooler we made for him. He used to see 185* at the end of a run now it's 4 degrees more than what he started the run with. Don't forget I daily drove my Jeep boosted for 35K miles before I went crazy with it. Even Mike said the IAT's were drastically better sitting in traffic with it. A good core makes all the difference. Unless you're running a Maggie or KB..... an intercooler upgrade will make a big difference for a Vortech and Procharger system.

[Illinois Chaos]

There is literally nothing to fear using a w/m kit on a forced induction motor, only benefits, if you don't use it to make power and just use it for the cooling and other benefits it provides. Free steam cleaning .

 

E-85, 100 shot, ice box and w/m kit, I make my own atmosphere. Whatever temp I leave the line at, I see over 10* less at the stripe and my intake is almost too cold to touch in the pits.

[Linda's FF]

There is literally nothing to fear using a w/m kit on a forced induction motor, only benefits, if you don't use it to make power and just use it for the cooling and other benefits it provides. Free steam cleaning .

 

E-85, 100 shot, ice box and w/m kit, I make my own atmosphere. Whatever temp I leave the line at, I see over 10* less at the stripe and my intake is almost too cold to touch in the pits.

Tom, I've seen you have had some awesome ET's and fun racing lately too.

Linda

[Fastrt09]

There is literally nothing to fear using a w/m kit on a forced induction motor, only benefits, if you don't use it to make power and just use it for the cooling and other benefits it provides. Free steam cleaning .

E-85, 100 shot, ice box and w/m kit, I make my own atmosphere. Whatever temp I leave the line at, I see over 10* less at the stripe and my intake is almost too cold to touch in the pits.

Do you go to GLD at all?

[HemiSam]

It takes a fair amount of water/meth (think large dual nozzles) to reach the amount needed to drop the AFR a full point which is where you'll see a cooling benefit in a blown car.  Most of the kits use exactly the same pump.  Not a huge number of failures that I found when researching before I installed my kit.  I don't need it with the TT's but I kept the kit installed since it was a mighty clean job I did if I may say so misef' 

 

The Europeans are way ahead of us on the use of water/meth.  That's where the good info was...eurotrash forums.

 

HS

[closeracing]

I think if there were a lot of failures people would be posting first hand what damage occurred. I'm not saying it's never happened but I have never heard someone say " I had a pump failure and it toasted my motor". 

It was used on airplanes and like I said there are people here making big #'s on 91 pump and 100% meth, gains are much higher than 30hp, a firebird with an LS went from 550 something whp to almost 670. I think if you have a race and a street tune you should be safe as long as you keep the rez full

[Illinois Chaos]

Do you go to GLD at all?

 

Yes, I have been there zillions of times. Back in the IMSM days it was every other race @ Byron and Union Grove. I'm supposed to race there this Sat. during the Nitrous Street Car Brawl, in Stateline Index, but the 2nd points race for Midwest Index is @ Byron on Sun. 2 days in a row is too tough for me to arrange, plus it wears me out doing that.

[lxmodguy]

I like the idea of the meth setups.  There is a benefit to adding it to all kinds of setups.  There are some better quality pumps out there if you look.  I am going to run the holley setup on mine.  I am going to be pretty aggressive on the IAT tables to pull timing as the IAT climb.  So I will just get all my timing with it as opposed to not getting my timing without it.  Im running a little smarter setup though with the Holley Dominator setup.  It is seriously awesome how much shit this thing can do.  So I am not sweating at all running the meth.  I am excited to get to playing with it and seeing just how detailed I can be with the controls.

 

Holley's kit by the way has optional level sensor for the tank.  It also has 400,600,800 nozzles

[legmaker]

i have read all of these comments and not one person touched on the point (and reason) why i run meth.  forget the octane boost.  unless you are spraying pure meth, you will not see 116 octane.  yes a good intercooler is paramount with keeping IAT's down, especially at the track for a supercharged car.  i can speak first hand to that.  the BIGGEST reason i started running a water/meth mix was part throttle boost situations.  when i ran the stock 6.1 for many miles, it saw boost and 14.7 afr often, but i was having the meth pump triggered at 2psi.  when i tore my motor down, it looked perfect.   this was after roughly 25+K miles of hard driving and lots of passes.  with the current forged motor i run now, the meth is not as important in keeping the pistons from breaking, but it does not hurt to keep the combustion process cooler.

 

bottomline - meth has its place.  i would not call it a "band-aid" by any means.  i would also not tune for it, nor run such a level of meth to cause my a/f to drop a point.  to me, its a safety measure that works, especially for supercharged guys running stock bottom ends.  

 

btw - its not that big a deal of a system to monitor.  use the washer tank and the evic will tell you when its low.  the kits come with a bright light telling you the pump is working.  if the light goes out, the pump is not working.  and yes..... i have had a pump fail.