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Swaggernaught

Vortech On Stock 5.7

31 posts in this topic

I know a supercharger on any stock engine can be disastrous on stock engines with a bad tune so there is no need to state that. What I need to know is how much can the stock 5.7 take with a Vortech on it at a safe boost level, say 5 or 6 psi? I decided on a Vortech because I want it to work around my AFR hood and I have heard it is the safest supercharger for a stock engine, correct me if I am wrong. As far as tuning is concerned, I would take it to Adam at Spankin' Time as his shop is only 20 minutes from me. I won't be abusing the car every weekend at the track, but it will see track time in the 1/4. Currently I am not looking for record setting while it is my only driver and an engine build is a ways off after a supercharger. I need to know what you guys think is my best bet. I wouldn't put this on CockTalk because they will just tell me I need a faster color and a catch can. I want to address all issues that may arise as I like to have a plan for likely outcomes.

Also, yes I know I can't fucking tune right now. I already have plans set in place to take care of that before supercharger is installed, I don't want to be like that white IE piggy in the banner :)

Thanks guys

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I have been running 6 psi with a Maggie for a year with no issues. As a matter of fact its my daily driver. I get to the track about once a month or so and have been modding and pushing the car harder and harder I just bumped up to 8 psi with great results. I have a very fat tune in right now. Williams rt is running 8lbs on his rt also...but again, only recently.

 

We are both running Roots style scs so figure that into your thinking. I dont pretend to understand the performance differences between roots and centrifugal scs... Smarter folks will comment I'm sure.

 

So what are you doing for tuning? 2010 PCM?

 

I take it you are in socal. Ever make it out to Fontana? I'll be there feb 4th trying to get into the 11s.

Let me know how Adam works out for you. I have been going up to stack performance in brea.

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I believe Kris, from Speedlogix, has close to 50K miles on his daily driver Vortec. As you mentioned, it's all in the tune and boost is boost, so the SC manufacturer really isn't a big consideration. Except of course, how the boost comes on. The roots-type and twin scews build all their boost almost instantaneously, whereas centrifugals come on much more gradually, so if you run 8 psi on a Vortec, you'll only be running at 8 psi for a very short time, especially if you have a 6-speed.

 

I have a ProCharger running 8 psi on my stock 6.1, but I don't hit 8 psi until 5,800 rpm and I'm shifting at 6,000 rpm. After shifting, my rpms drop to about 4,300 and boost is ~3.5psi and builds to ~5 or ~6 at 5,000 rpm then up to 8 again at 5,800. I don't know how much rpms drop on autos between shifts, but boost will be affected to some degree.

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If you can get PlumKrazy on here he could prolly tell the hell outta some vortec on a 5.7

He's runnin that at like 7lbs on a 6-speed and from what he's told me its just awesome

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I believe you will be fine with 8lbs. Arrington does them all the time. They would not be promoting the 8 lb Maggie kits if they felt the Hemi could not handle it. Tune is the magic word.

 

Spankin Time. I believe I read somewhere (can't remember where) here at the MMF that they have a hard time delivering their work on time. I remember the name of the poster of that thread but I don't want to mention the name. If the person reads this, they will probably chime in.

 

Good Luck. Let us know the outcome.

 

Stevo

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PM luvmyrt and iron6 if they do not chime in on this thread. They have both run vortechs on stock block 5.7s. I will say if you need extra fuel which the maggie does not, do not use a boostapump just install the 392 fuel pump or the new Arrington fuel set up that uses your stock fuel hat. If Adam at spankin time is backed up remember any one can install it, if you want Adam to tune it you can schedule a tune with him after the install.

 

At 8 psi with a good tune I think it will last forever. I'm still on the fence whether or not I wanna go to 10 psi. Get a good AFR gauge and keep an eye on it.

Just do it, or go with the 3.1 pulley and get 9#. You want to be slower than me forever? :)

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Let's assume a good install and a good tune. I'd be comfortable running 7-8psi on a stock block that's your daily driver. It'll let you sleep at night.

 

Key, as mentioned, is good fuel delivery. There's nothing wrong with a Boost a Pump (BAP) if installed correctly. The key is installed CORRECTLY. Most shops don't know how to do it proper and most individuals certainly do not and that's where we've seen breakage, outside of crap tunes. So for insurance, I think having a smart fuel setup like Arrington's is a good recommendation. Why take chances on your block over a few hundred bucks??? Wideband/O2 sensor and an AFR gauge...must haves. If you're boosting a stock block without watching your AFR, you're smokin' crack. 'nuf said.

 

Best of luck with the upgrades.

 

HemiSam

 

P.S. if they're raising your redline, they're in effect raising your boost with a centri blower. So I'd take it to 6000-6200K rpm (whatever you're comfortable with given stock heads/springs/valves) and have the peak boost at say 8psi. You'll want to spin it more with a blower as you'll hit redline a lot quicker.

 

HemiSam

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Ditto on what Sam and Williams are saying. At the same time you install the Vortech, install a good AFR and boost gauges, I highly recommend upgrading the fuel system with an Arrington setup and not use a BAP. Now some draw backs to a Vortech in order to check the plugs on the drivers side its a PITA due to the innercooler and plumbing. . Also think about an MTCM to replace the stock TCM to avoid LIMP mode with the auto.

I had AFR and Boost gauges installed prior, MD speed installed the Vortech, tuned and dyno it at 6.5# boost 468 RWHP and 472#Tq. My motor had 5000 miles on it before the Vortechs was installed. It lasted 822 miles with 25 1/4 passes on it when it blew and not on the strip. No CEL and gauges looked normal, just started running rough and boom. TUNER is the clue. Stock rings at high RPMs your living on the edge. There are a lot of guys running stock blocks with Maggies no problem. FORGED motor is the way to go if you want to sleep at night. Remember if you play sooner or later you may have to pay. I like my Vortechs and it really makes my car scream. There are to many Maggies out there so another Vortechs guy on the site would be a plus.:D Good luck My mind is still a little foggy from last night I hope this helps.

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I think you'll be fine with the right tune. DO NOT use a BAP, use proper fuel delivery like a larger pump and I'd recommend front and rear crossovers and upgraded fuel rails. Everything else should come in the kit. I was at the track with LuvMyRT when his stock motor blew. The "thinking" was that it was a BAP issue and it leaned out, but no one knows 100% for sure as he didn't have gauges in the car. He now has an Arrington 392 in it with the Vortech. MD Speed (the same shop that did Iron6 car) did Luv's install. Both blew up so things need to be right for this to work.

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Vortech is a good SC for a daily driver. Depending on your driving you can use your car for the most part & not be into boost until your right foot starts to get very heavy. Like everyone else has said put in a good duel fuel pump system & get a good tune & you will be fine. 6.5lbs of boost added about 140RWHP to my stock 5.7 motor. You will start making boost with the Vortech at about 2500rpms but it will hold full boost until you shift at your red line. My wife drives our car to work alot that is the reason I chose the Vortech. Iron6 & I had our SC put on at the same shop. Both motor were tuned by the same guy. Both cars had very few miles on them after the installs when the stock motors let go. So find a shop with a tuner who has a good reputation for tuning these new Hemi engines.

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Just do it, or go with the 3.1 pulley and get 9#. You want to be slower than me forever? lol

 

lol I'm letting you have your moment. When the time comes you'll be put back in your place :)

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Vortech is a good SC for a daily driver. Depending on your driving you can use your car for the most part & not be into boost until your right foot starts to get very heavy. Like everyone else has said put in a good duel fuel pump system & get a good tune & you will be fine. 6.5lbs of boost added about 140RWHP to my stock 5.7 motor. You will start making boost with the Vortech at about 2500rpms but it will hold full boost until you shift at your red line. My wife drives our car to work alot that is the reason I chose the Vortech. Iron6 & I had our SC put on at the same shop. Both motor were tuned by the same guy. Both cars had very few miles on them after the installs when the stock motors let go. So find a shop with a tuner who has a good reputation for tuning these new Hemi engines.

Holy shit, that's a lot for 6.5 lbs of boost. I was looking for around 120 and willing to go up to about 7.5psi. I'd be happy with 6.5 in that case.

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Speedysgarage to the rescue again, hope you don't mind me copying the gauges lol Thanks for all the input guys, I have all the part numbers now, just working on the money for the Vortech. Now to find the best tuner within reasonable driving distance.

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Are there any others 2011 R/T's running with a 2010 PCM yet? I assume everything will be the same as the 392 setup Arrington is doing, just curious if you will be breaking new ground on the 11 R/T. Good luck with it.

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Nothing wrong with using a BAP - in fact one comes with the Vortech Kit. If it is installed correctly you will not have any issues.

 

Kirs (SRT8U) has over 50k on his Vortech kit with a Boost a Pump.

 

We have installed and sold many Vortech kits on stock block 5.7 Challengers and did NOT add more than a BAP and Fuel injectors...not a single one blown up.

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I'm still running a stock bottom end with a 5.7L with 110K miles on it. An I've put 10k miles on it. Since the supercharger install and I've hit 9lbs of boost with it. Other than a couple interruptions that were not supercharger induced. It's still running strong and I use it as a race car. It get beat really hard every time I drive it.

 

I also know our vender Drag-On Tuning does good things with these engines I would ask him about doing a revised vortech tune after you get it installed.

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Nothing wrong with using a BAP - in fact one comes with the Vortech Kit. If it is installed correctly you will not have any issues.

 

Kirs (SRT8U) has over 50k on his Vortech kit with a Boost a Pump.

 

We have installed and sold many Vortech kits on stock block 5.7 Challengers and did NOT add more than a BAP and Fuel injectors...not a single one blown up.

Mikey,

Does the 5.7 kit come with a canned tune for the Vortech now for 2010 and 2011 RT's?

I have a slightly used KB BAP (822 miles) I'll sell for 150.00 plus shipping if I can find it.

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Mikey,

Does the 5.7 kit come with a canned tune for the Vortech now for 2010 and 2011 RT's?

I have a slightly used KB BAP (822 miles) I'll sell for 150.00 plus shipping if I can find it.

 

 

Vortech does not have a Tune, but we have used Johan to do the tuning for the customers on any kit we sell.

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So far my parts list is as follows:

 

Vortech tuner kit ( I have a trinity already and I don't need the Boost-a-pump)

Arrington dual fuel hat

SRT4 fuel injectors (x8)

Billet fuel rails with front and rear crossover.

AeroForce wideband air/fuel kit

AeroForce Interceptor for AFR monitoring

Gauge pod

3 bar map sensor

 

Am I missing anything? I really don't want to blow up this engine just yet.

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I don't think you need the 3bar map sensor unless that's what your tuner specified. See if your kit comes with one as most use the Caliber SRT4 or Neon SRT4 Map that is 2 - 2.25 BAR. It's what's in my car at 12psi.

 

Everything else looks good, although I'd consider the LC-1 over the Aeroforce wide band as it's a little more sophisticated.

 

You can use the Interceptor to read boost if you want, but I added a separate analog (needle) boost gauge. You'll need some gauge mount like a single or dual pillar pod for the gauges.

 

Everything else looks pretty good. Who's gonna tune it?

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Yeah I planned on using the same gauge setup you have, just didn't write it down in the post. I planned on taking it to JBA performance center in San Diego as they are a top-tier installer unless there is another tuner you think could work out better.

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