Is Na The Way?

[Knownman 23]

Here's the deal,

Been running the KB for a few years now. I enjoy it but I guess I'm getting bored with it. I always wanted an NA build because of the way I figured they drive. But now I'm wondering if it's what I think it will be like or not.?

Learned a lot of the hidden issues with. FI from doing it. Some of them I don't mind. Some I do. I'm writing this to get some input from those of you who are running big HP NA motors. I'm talking bout the 440+ cubic inches. Most likely the Aluminum kind.

Here's some of the pros I see with NA

Less weight as compared to stock and most definitely compared to having a blower with all the extra heat exchangers and screws, etc...

Less cooling issues. Both with regards to block temps and with intake temps.

More controlled power delivery. Maybe not as much peak torque as early but more fluid and usable given street tires and such.

Less troubleshooting. Belt slip, vacuum leaks, fuel leaks, plug gaps, coolant burping, IATs, etc...

Some similarities

Air fuel gage a must

Fuel pressure gauge a must, although I don't have one now it would take the place of the boost gauge

Proper octane fuel from decent supplier a must.

Cons

Cost

Longevity of engine being its a stroker

Ability to easily bump up HP

Fuel mileage

Possibly emissions .

So there are some of my thoughts and I'm sure I've left out many things that I'm hoping you guys and gals can post up some things I've missed, forgotten or just plain old have wrong.

And yes, I om on the fence about dropping In a 461!

Thanks,

Matt

[no1special 36]

I'm only running a little 423.... But have put down 569 to the wheels and with the new mods fully expect closer to 600rwhp and I can tell you from my experience.....the biggest drawback to me doing another na build would be the inability to bump up power with a pulley change or waste gate spring. Even with a 468 if only put down about 50 more to the wheels and then I'm pretty much stuck unless I decide to spray it. If you'll be happy with mid to low 10s na is a great way to go imho

[budoboy 12]

A really powerful N/A motor will cost you A LOT more than a FI engine of the same power. Also the more you push the limit with the N/A motor the more tempermental it will be.

N/A is cool because of the simplicity and hard hit off the starting line but you will easily make more power with FI (for less money)

[Boatman 97]

You can add N2o to a NA setup for track days and added power. Jeff's right though a serious NA engine costs way more than a boosted engine to build maintain.

[Adanac Charger 30]

A low to mid-10's NA car has lost its street manners. There's a big difference between one of them and a high-10's NA car.

Now, with that said... I want my NA stroker to run low to mid-10's.

If you have a good tuner and you're prepared to log, NA is great. The only problem is that you'll have to find all new friends as your FI buddies with their 800HP cars will laugh at you.

[robsrt 58]

There's downsides to both. I've had a 419 with a big cam. Made 559rwhp and went 11.2 @ 123 with a tight converter. Power delivery was definitely more linear than my blower setup now. However, the big cam wasn't a lot of fun around town. The car would go 40mph without touching the pedal.

I know tuning has come a long way. However, there's always a trade off. With my blower, I have a smaller cam and it idles smooth. Not issues of it cruising down the street without touching the gas. If I had to choose, I'd say I like the street manners of my 750rwhp blower build better than my 559rwhp NA build.

[Knownman 23]

This is exactly the info I was hoping you all would contribute. I am concerned about street ability as I live in a really congested area, NYC.

I also don't want to drop a huge.... chunk of money on something that really doesn't work for my driving style.

At this point I'm thinking of just forging the block maybe stroking to 392 and working out some of the gremlins.

[Drp6982 31]

I am also running a cam similar to RobSRT's old nitrous motor..... Very cool, sounds killer, great power but a little much if its a daily driver. If it was just a weekend car/track car I say go for it...

but I would not want to rely on having to drive a big NA motor around town

[lakersfan7272 59]

A 426 or 440 with a reasonable cam is a blast to drive around town IMO. If it were me id skip trying to squeeze every last pony out of it. Seems like eons ago I was NA 426 but that thing sure was fun to tear around the streets in.

[Adanac Charger 30]

My 239/247 cam starts and drives great around town. Joel has it tuned really well and there's no 40mph idle.

It's that extra .5 second that could make it a pain in the azz around town.

[robsrt 58]

I agree with lakey and Adanac. Go with a fairly mild cam and give up 25hp and it'll make it much more enjoying around town.

[bklynmag 6]

I've got an aluminum Arrington 449 N/A pushing 570+ to the wheels in my magnum and also live in NYC. With full interior in the car (around 4350lbs with driver) I usually run 10.90-11.1 depending on the air. I've run a best so far of 10.78 in cool dry fall air and a 4,200lbs weight.

My car now has 3.23 gears in an 8.8 rear with a Paramount transmission and a 4400 stall converter. The 10.78 was run with 3.06 gears.

I've driven the mag a few times to work on a Friday and stop/go traffic on the Gowanus(BQE) and it gets old quick (40+ minutes for an 8 mile commute). Between the hard tranny shifts and the cam. . . .she ain't no Cadillac. . . . The car is damned dependable though with no overheating issues . . . . .she just has a nasty attitude.

[rtr0id 73]

show me a guy who doesn't want to be blown and i'll show you...........

a guy sick of changing belts and just wants to go racing

[BuckeyeGuy 82]

Amen Tony! If i need more, i will spray it. But everyone is right, an NA motor on full kill is a handful on the street and really expensive to build.

[toofart 148]

show me a guy who doesn't want to be blown

[Goehner 240]

^^^

[legmaker 43]

if this is a true street car that will actually get driven a lot, a nice stroker build with a reasonable cam would be a solid choice. as has already been stated, give up a few hp's for a nice streetable combo is smart.

[robsrt 58]

I think a forged 6.1 with stock heads and cams with twin 58mm turbos would make a nice street car too. Turbos will make it quiet. It'll run like stock until you get on it. You can make 550-850rwhp depending on drivetrain.

[Don@Arrington 17]

I`m ready when you are

[ALcharger 0]

IMO, if money is no object, a single or twin turbo on a 5.7 based stroker. It has nice street manors and will put down over 1100 HP to the ground.The 5.7 block is thicker/stronger than a 6.1

As far as a stroker, my stroker is on full kill because I want it that way on a track car.

A tuner could have a street tune that would roast the tires on command but not be such a handful. When you are ready to race, load the race tune. Costs are a short block, cam, ported heads, intake and go. Depending on your budget, most of these items come up used.

No more issues with belts, pulls, tensioner, heat....

When I go to the track and put down a low 10 second NA pass it's different. Something about the simplicity of making power without a power adder. The ability make all the components efficient and work together is satisfying rather than changing a pulley and letting the blower power through choke points....

A big ass cam is going behave like a big ass cam. Lumpy idle for sure but idles below 1000 RPM. No run away idle.

[Hemi31 194]

For a street car ill take a small stroker with 10 psi over na anyday. I can have a boosted mid ten second car that will drive and behave as well as stock on the street. You will never get that for the same mid 10 na car, however the mid 10 na car will sound flat out sick.

[novawagonmaster 62]

Having gone down the same road twice with two extreme N/A builds, if I had it to do all over again, I would do something very similar to InferAl's build. N/A 426 that runs on pump gas and clicks off 10.70s-10.80's with the wheels up pass after pass. Drives it everywhere.

[lxmodguy 20]

NA is expensive. It is not much fun to daily drive if you are trying to make a lot of power NA. I would take a small motor and boost long before a big one completely wound out to make power. If I were doing NA I would build an aluminum 440 and call it good. 11:1 motor with a medium sized cam and the right heads should net you 600 wheel

[Blue Blur 45]

Im building a pretty nasty N/A 420 with a Stage 4ish cam and 11.1. If I break 500whp and it is as driveable as my last BB i'll be happy. My next engine will be a turbo 5.7 or 6.1 in a lighter car or truck with an automatic. I have a manual and a power adder will only add to the breakage factor.

[Speedy 247]

I'd not trade my supercharged 6.0 for a NA 440. I love my setup and it's been uber reliable for 5 years and runs 10.90s at nearly 130MPH. I drive it all over, drive it to the track, swap tires, and drive home. For me it's FI or bust.

At the track Saturday there was some big race going on with our TNT day. At the end of the day some of the racers came over asking Greg and I about our Challenges. They were in Fox Body Mustang race cars and were in a 7.50 1/8th mile class. Their mouths dropped when they found out we ran 7.0 or below in the 8th and had AC and stereos.