Gen 3 Hemi...supercharged Vs Turbo??

[Quickrunner 2]

Staring from scratch and weighing options of supercharged vs turbo on this build.

The car: 71 Demon build, 315 drag radial, leaf 25 inch front segment rear with smith assasin bars , Strange s60 40 spline dana, with ARB. Front suspension is going to be a Bob's Profab tube K coilover settup. Car with have full interior and 8.5 cert molly cage, all steel except the hood. Will run injection, trans break, and simplicity and aesthetics are very important.

The Goal: Street strip car capable of high 8 sec 1/4, able to be ran on pump gas, and must fit under flat hood. Possible future drag week adventure is on bucket list but mainly want to be able to drive it to cruse night and take it to track.

I have a set of Arrington cnc eagle heads and Manley valves, and a 5.7 block (later model vvt block just for mock up in car) that's it for engine so far so wide open on options. Obviously good forged rotating bottom end with more cubes.

Looking for best bang for the buck. This will be first time with forced induction and leaning toward simplicity of Whipple setup but open to ideas, turbo or procharger maybey. It wont be supper light so figuring will need 1100 at the wheels to meet goal.

[Hemi31 194]

Its got an 8.50 cage how fast are you wanting to go?

[Quickrunner 2]

Car will be certed to 8.5 to limit my $$ in this . It has suspension capable of a 7.5 cert but its just a fun project and not looking to set class records. Goal is to be able to run high 8's ad drive it some and keep it under flat hood. Really like to do drag week eventually.

[El Diablo 74]

Sounds nice, we need pictures.

[Blue Blur 45]

The reason Eric asked about the 8.50 cert part is boost and a Gen III will easily surpass that ! NA is pushing it with an 8.50 cage in an old A-body. Welcome Quick, plumbing turboes will be a TIG welding party to say the least. Or you could get a somewhat prefabbed kit that mounts one at each exhaust manifold outlet ala LX, just not sure if an A-body has room for that setup or not. That would be sick with a pair of 66's off each 6.1 manifold. Otherwise I bet guys will point you to a 2.9 Whipple.

[Quickrunner 2]

Here is a shot of ride height with suspension mocked up in car after mini tubs were done and quarter opening extended.

[El Diablo 74]

Looks nice ! I would recommend the 2.9 whipple, not sure if it will make the power numbers you are looking for but it would be close.

[Quickrunner 2]

Whats the height on the 4.0 Whipple?

[El Diablo 74]

Whats the height on the 4.0 Whipple?

Only person I know of running the 4.0 Whipple is Frank, (RoomRaider). That is a custom kit that API machined the manifold for, expensive and hard to get, API may possibly make you one. The 4.0 sits under the hood on his car but it's tight. Contact Frank I'm sure he can get you measurements.

[Apps 11]

Dwight and the Stage 6 Motorsports guys TT'd a Demon with a late model motor....not sure what it ever ran for a number...if it ran for a number at all....awesome install though.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1970714399 has a couple images....

[Blue Blur 45]

Lets not forget Aves cool build either.

http://modernmoparforum.com/topic/10411-1967-dodge-dart-take-2/

[turbofreek 29]

8s you say, flat hood you say, street car you say,....nah i dont know anything about that idea at all....

[Blue Blur 45]

Love your upper rad inlet Jerm, that shit is gonna super cool your air charge !

[turbofreek 29]

Love your upper rad inlet Jerm, that shit is gonna super cool your air charge !

hey im at mock up stage at the moment. i seen that as well and can make it inlet at the side of the rad if i had to. haha turbos been her all of 10 minutes when i took that pic. maybe this one is better? shows the flathood fits as well.

[Jerseyboy 62]

Personally, for your goal, I'd go Turbo. Much easier to reach your goals and give you the ability to easily change boost levels. For 1100rwhp, you probably want an 82 or 88mm single Precision Turbo or a pair of 64mm Precisions. We've done 1050rwhp on a single 76mm though and it runs 9.5s in a 5000lb Jeep SRT8. I don't think you are going to need the 1100rwhp number to reach your target if you can keep it around 3000lbs...

J

[turbofreek 29]

jersey my turbo is an 82mm billet wheel turbo from forcedinductions.com. its will supply enough for about 1350rwhp+ on the right engine. its not a complete custom unit but the comp wheel is and the exhaust wheel can be soon for bigger engines. it is a great turbo for most applications. this same turbo with a smaller comp wheel went 4.80s on a 363" ls engine and ultra car on 8.5s@3300lbs a few years ago. they now have better comp housings and wheels are being created and tested as we speak. it is the best bag for the buck vs a custom turbo for 6000.

i wouldnt put a precision turbo on my lawn mower fwiw. lots of failures and not many warrantys gets covered from what ive heard.

[ironchallenger 106]

Yep. Precision sucks balls

[Jerseyboy 62]

jersey my turbo is an 82mm billet wheel turbo from forcedinductions.com. its will supply enough for about 1350rwhp+ on the right engine. its not a complete custom unit but the comp wheel is and the exhaust wheel can be soon for bigger engines. it is a great turbo for most applications. this same turbo with a smaller comp wheel went 4.80s on a 363" ls engine and ultra car on 8.5s@3300lbs a few years ago. they now have better comp housings and wheels are being created and tested as we speak. it is the best bag for the buck vs a custom turbo for 6000.

i wouldnt put a precision turbo on my lawn mower fwiw. lots of failures and not many warrantys gets covered from what ive heard.

I'm just speaking from my experience. Stage 6 uses precision exclusively and I don't know of any failures with any of the builds they have done that were caused by the turbo itself. My experience with Comp was they are junk, oiled or oil less and I have yet to see a BW kit out perform the Stage 6 Precision stuff. Never tried a BW on a Stage 6 kit though. The new Garretts seem to put down some decent power too.

If Forcedinductions.com woks for you, that's great. Just saying what has worked for me in my experience.

J

[turbofreek 29]

forcedinductions man jose...all the fastest turbo cars run his turbos. he does precision, garretts, bw, turbonetics etc... custom and factory turbos is his game and he has been around longer than precision. many single turbo larger precisions have a short life span. most get rebuilt once or more per year on just race cars. cant imagine how the dtreet car stuff is besides my own i have ran long ago. had the comp wheel break apart on me with less than 1000 miles on it. i was blamed for oil starvation but i seen the bearing before returning it. it looks brand new. even had a picture of it to prove otherwise. was told to buy a new turbo. no warranty given for it 5 weeks and 1400 later. ill never give them another penny.

[Tout 60]

In talking to a few guy's that race, location and maintenance is key to survival of a turbo, they just don't install and forget about them.

[Quickrunner 2]

Thread getting a little side tracked form original question

[turbofreek 29]

blowers are easy bolt ons vs turbos. as another said location is key to less trouble down the road. hot stuff melts things if its close enough. wrap wiring in insulation to keep from being melted if its close for comfort.

[Jerseyboy 62]

Thread getting a little side tracked form original question

IMHO, you are going to need fab work no matter what route you go since nobody makes a bolt on SC kit for a 71 Demon with a late model hemi. The 2.9L Whipple isn't going to get you the 1100rwhp you are looking for. I don't think the 4.0L will either to be honest as I haven't seen one dyno over 1000rwhp yet, even on big inch engines. You would need spray on top of both combinations to get your number. If you were going ProCharger, I would go F1X, but that is going to be completely custom brackets and piping. At that point, I'd just go straight to a turbo setup (single or twins, your choice) and know I could achieve the power and still have the flexibility to run around on the street without having to swap pulleys or deal with any of the belt slip/alignment issues that a 1100rwhp blower would have. You could go crank drive but then changing the drive ratio is a pain if you ever do Drag Week.

Where are you located? That could help you decide. If you have a shop that is strong in one or the other near you that you want to use, it makes sense to play to their strong suits.

J

[Blue Blur 45]

8-900whp will get you 8.50's as it is. Barton runs 8.50's NA.

[aves 9]

To me for a true street strip car it is hard to beat a turbo. You do not need a radical cam and street manners are a lot better than any other choice especially at the power level you want. Maybe I am kinda partial though

As far as brand you can ask 10 different people and get atleast 6 different answers. One thing you will notice when you go to stuff the gen 3 in the old car is how freaking wide the engine is. My big block fit better side to side than the gen 3 does. I really didn't want to cut inner fenders when first started but it made it way easier during fabrication. Can always make new panels to clean open engine bay after and gives you more flexibility to location of turn and piping

Troy