Factory 392 Build (How Far Can We Take It?)

[U.F.O. 8]

OK, starting in 2011 we 392 owners have been toying with the limits of our motors. Encryption? We went past that. PCM swaps. Now we have ready access to Maggie 8lb kits that generally stay within the range of our factory trannies and suspension. (Hi notsure, Frank and Alan) Where can we go from here? Arrington, last week, supercharged a factory 392 to 11.5lbs of boost and 635 rwhp/670 torque after forging the bottom end. They forged the pistons and rods in order to reach boost levels this high. The one thing they didn't do is port the heads, worth about 35 rwhp above the numbers mentioned. This upgrade involves blue-topped tranny (for autos), axle upgrade and drivetrain upgrade. I'm waiting on a pricing list right now that would essentially give me close to 680 rwhp and 710 torque at 12 lbs boost. I'm trying to figure out why I don't want to do this... Do I have other options? Thx.

U.F.O.

[Colonel Angus 5]

Do not forget suh, you have to put all that power to the ground. Time to get icky with the stickies!!

[U.F.O. 8]

Col., as always, you are the source when it comes to things sticky. Slicks and skinnies will be my new mantra Suh.

U.F.O.

[bhayes335 28]

Do not forget suh, you have to put all that power to the ground. Time to get icky with the stickies!!

the ground is the last thing I think about when dealing with the icky of the sticky...but when I do, its usually sudden...and painful

[Guest Daparrothead]

OK, starting in 2011 we 392 owners have been toying with the limits of our motors. Encryption? We went past that. PCM swaps. Now we have ready access to Maggie 8lb kits that generally stay within the range of our factory trannies and suspension. (Hi notsure, Frank and Alan) Where can we go from here? Arrington, last week, supercharged a factory 392 to 11.5lbs of boost and 635 rwhp/670 torque after forging the bottom end. They forged the pistons and rods in order to reach boost levels this high. The one thing they didn't do is port the heads, worth about 35 rwhp above the numbers mentioned. This upgrade involves blue-topped tranny (for autos), axle upgrade and drivetrain upgrade. I'm waiting on a pricing list right now that would essentially give me close to 680 rwhp and 710 torque at 12 lbs boost. I'm trying to figure out why I don't want to do this... Do I have other options? Thx.

U.F.O.

Hey Jim, Those are some pretty impressive numbers for sure. Do you by chance know what the static compression ratio on that 392 is with 11.5 psi of boost?

[HemiSam 195]

You approach 700rwhp, I can tell you from experience that with a PD blower it's a handful. You'll soon get to a point where you're on the ragged edge of drivability. Still cool, but much more and you're hitting the tipping point. That was my experience, anyhoo.

You got a real woody for this, Jim, which is cool. I'd soak it up a bit and then pull the trigger. You know Arrington will do you right but you want to do it the one time. Upgrade it all right and proper, keeping in mind what your ultimate end game is. It'll be cheaper and less stressful in the end.

And while slicks kick ass, they're not a panacea. You'll have to go bigger before long once you start blowing through higher power levels or really dial it in proper and get a lot more experience in the driver's seat. You do have an auto going for you.

If you forge the block, dial up the boost to say 13-14psi and you can throw a small shot at it via the TB. It'll wake you up....

HemiSam

[Goehner 313]

You approach 700rwhp, I can tell you from experience that with a PD blower it's a handful. You'll soon get to a point where you're on the ragged edge of drivability. Still cool, but much more and you're hitting the tipping point. That was my experience, anyhoo.

You got a real woody for this, Jim, which is cool. I'd soak it up a bit and then pull the trigger. You know Arrington will do you right but you want to do it the one time. Upgrade it all right and proper, keeping in mind what your ultimate end game is. It'll be cheaper and less stressful in the end.

And while slicks kick ass, they're not a panacea. You'll have to go bigger before long once you start blowing through higher power levels or really dial it in proper and get a lot more experience in the driver's seat. You do have an auto going for you.

If you forge the block, dial up the boost to say 13-14psi and you can throw a small shot at it via the TB. It'll wake you up....

HemiSam

And while slicks kick ass, they're not a panacea.

HemiSam

Is that a fruit or vegetable?

[Boatman 97]

Do it like they do bridges. Just keep piling shit on till it breaks then next time be just under that amount.

Seriously though what Sam said is true. From what I have read from you your not gonna be happy till your running 10's with your hair on fire. I can dig that for certain. My point is when you go under the knife this time do the works, don't leave anything on the table in other words. I personally would not do Blue tops for the power you will likely be hitting, build the trans beef up the axles drive shaft loop. Heads are another story, I will need to leave that for someone who knows more about the 392's they might be just fine? Headers if you can deal with emissions are a must have and if that's the case go catless mids so you don't need to worry about the cats ever again.

Might think about a ice box for the track days. They do help a fair amount.

Port Maggies snout and get a 85 or 90 MM TB.

Dang spending other peoples money is great!! :D

[HemiSam 195]

Is that a fruit or vegetable?

HemiSam

[lakersfan7272 59]

what cr are you going to come in at?

[Yellow Jacket 26]

Sam, did you have forged pistons and rods when you were running the Maggie with the nitrous?

Would Jim's current set-up tolerate some nitrous without upgrading the driveline or internals? I'm just wondering if Jim can have a little fun with that before rebuilding the whole engine. Something more incremental. However, your point about doing it all at once, and right the first time is well-taken. Which is why I'm still waiting in the wings!

[StevoHemi 278]

Wow Jim.... you sure have been bitten by the drag bug! Happy for ya mate. On the heads.... they usually don't port n polish heads on a blown engine. Ported heads free up more hp on a NA engine than a blown engine. If shops do port them on a blown engine, usually they enlarge/clean up the exhaust side.

Sounds like you really wanna go fast... and that's cool. Don't forget the cage!

Maybe you need one of these!

Stevo

[Boatman 97]

He is at his "fun stage" already. More boost and certainly NOS would be a crap shoot. It's fun to push things especially when you plan on building a new engine. I had these thoughts when I was running stock internals. I'll share a few thoughts that I had when trying to make my next move.

Doing damage to parts if you did blow shit up. The block most likely would be fine but the chance of dicking up a head possibly the crank is there.

Control over the timing. You start pushing things and it could blow at any time at that point your not necessarily in control of timing any longer. This could be a bigger deal to us northern guys who have a more limited driving season?? I didn't want to blow my shit up in May and essentially loose one whole year doing a rebuild over the summer months. I choose to try and get it done when I couldn't use the car. Still missed CF2 because of this so that only partially worked out.

Getting the parts you want depending on how long you want to wait. If you have a engine and all your parts just sitting there waiting for you this is a none factor. If not and you want your car back you very well might need to settle on a few items you other wise would have choose not to go with.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do. I like to see guys pushing it helps all of us.

[Roomraider 35]

This is very interesting to say the least. I'm on the fence right now, whether to set my 10.000 mile motor to the side & ordering up a forged 426 non vvt or doing the bottom end on the stocker. Truth is I'm leaning more to the 426 over the winter. I'll be happy with my goal of a beefy cammed up 700 - 800 @ the rear wheels.

[U.F.O. 8]

Arrington just got back on the compression ratio question. The answer is 10.3:1.

U.F.O.

[NOT SURE 35]

Im gonna hold off for a bit till I can shit another organ to donate and get some cash ponied up..

God damn this was an expensive week!

Now I have to buy z rated tires for the TX mile Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck me...

Anyone need a extra colan..5k its litely used

[HemiSam 195]

Sam, did you have forged pistons and rods when you were running the Maggie with the nitrous?

Would Jim's current set-up tolerate some nitrous without upgrading the driveline or internals? I'm just wondering if Jim can have a little fun with that before rebuilding the whole engine. Something more incremental. However, your point about doing it all at once, and right the first time is well-taken. Which is why I'm still waiting in the wings!

Howie,

My block is fully forged (pistons, rod and crank). I would not recommend adding nitrous on top of Jim's blower on a stock bottom end. Not saying it won't hold for a while, but it may or may not. If you're going to compound boost (i.e. blower/turbo and some spray), then I'd definitely want to be forged, be paying attention to the compression ratio (the effective CR once all taken into account), the spark plugs, the tune...timing and AFR, and race fuel. I'd also be looking at venting (i.e. crank case pressure).

vroom vroom...

HemiSam

[U.F.O. 8]

What does the 10.3:1 static compression ratio on the 392 Arrington just forged mean in regards to what I'm thinking about doing to my engine?

U.F.O.

[NOT SURE 35]

boost + nos w/ stock internals =

No matter how they advance the timing or compression the shit will implode!Might take 10 shot, ....

Melt a mexican, ...

Jim you should be Ok man if your gonna do what I think your gonna do.

Fuck have been really thinking on this as well..

Fuck forgeing the 392 ...For me Im gonna sit and hold my cards with that car being its what it is.?? ?? ??

Cant wait to talk again Jim I smell a build a coming!

Im on the 6.1 soon this fall Im gonna do a John Lewis mini build this winter on the black car! May go twin screw on that build I like the new Edelbrock arrington is dishing out..

I like this thread guys ,and Sammy knows his shit,he is Speedys Obi Wan Jedi master ...

JK jay!!

[U.F.O. 8]

Here's what the potential build sheet looks like:

Quantity Item Description Unit Price Amount

1.00 API 392 HEMI 10.3:1 COMPRESSION

SHORT BLOCK

1.00 API-PH-64 ARRINGTON PERFORMANCE 6.4

PORTED HEADS

1.00 DSS-RA7282X5 09-10' 6.1 SRT8 1400HP LEFT AXLE

(WITH GETRAG LSD)

1.00 DSS-RA7283X5 09-10' 6.1 SRT8 1400HP RIGHT AXLE

(WITH GETRAG LSD)

1.00 API-DSL-A API AUTOMATIC DRIVE SHAFT SAFETY

LOOP

1.00 PED-160080 New Challenger 2011+ Pedders Xa

eXtreme Coilover Set

1.00 SHR-21005 SOUTHERN HOTROD TRANSMISSION

SHIFT SOLENOIDS ((SET)

1.00 API 6 POINT ROLL CAGE COMPLETE

AND INSTALLED

1.00 MISCELLANEOUS PARTS & FLUIDS

1.00 COMPLETE INSTALLATION TUNE &

DYNO

1.00 HAND DELIVERED TO AND FROM

GERMANTOWN, TENNESSEE

The business manager (my wife) said go for it. What else do I need? (maybe stall converter) What else?

U.F.O.

[Goehner 313]

To steal toofarts line, "holy shit"

[U.F.O. 8]

You likey?

U.F.O.

[HemiSam 195]

You're going to be making close to 700rwhp. I'd look at doing a built transmission. Converter for sure. You need to think about the suspension and how you plan to use the car. I love my coilovers. The question is are you more driver or quarter miler.

Overall, nasty ass build. I'd toss in a 5pt harness submarine strap for fun.

HemiSam

[U.F.O. 8]

More driver. 1/4 miler 15'ish times a year the way I'm going. How much more would a built transmission cost? Converter also. 5pt harness sounds fun.

U.F.O.

[Andy@PWR 58]

Germantown? My wife is from collierville and my family lives in bartlett. My sister might be in germantown right off walnut grove and houston levee. Not sure if thats germantown or not. My niece went to germantown high and the other just graduated from bolton high

Oh and build sheet looks good. No camshaft?