Ok 392 Cam In 5.7 Or Not?

[Ed_R 1]

I'm SOL, since even if I swap my 2013 PCM for a 2012 from Arrington, they still lock me out.

[rdrdr90 38]

How can Mike say that....he tuned mine!

[Goehner 270]

I'm SOL, since even if I swap my 2013 PCM for a 2012 from Arrington, they still lock me out.

I am confused.

[Hemituner 97]

I'm SOL, since even if I swap my 2013 PCM for a 2012 from Arrington, they still lock me out.

You are never locked out. You can always elect to start with a factory flash and use diablosport tools for a tune. For 2011-2013 vehicles we simply use other software, Its layed out completely different and it took months to get used to it. Right now its a perfered method for us to calibrate. We are not and have no interest in competing with diablo.

Thanks

AJ

Odd that the cam caused problems with the lifters huh?

Well, I talked to Mike @ OST last night about all this. He said he's done one or two 392 cams via remote tuning but the customers haven't done any dyno so he doesn't have any data at all.

He's done a Comp 274 on a 5.7 car with a Kenny Bell and it picked up 100RWHP. He posted the dyno sheet on this forum he said, and I remember seeing it somewhere. He said you could see the power just pour on as he adjusted the cam timing in the tune. He's doing another one in a 392 here soon and will report back those results.

He did inform me the big issue with tuning is access to the necessary tables via CMR. He said Diablo has been working on it quite a bit, and are about 75% there, but that last 25% is what he really wants. The cars run good and the customers are all happy with them, but he said the low RPM and idle isn't as perfect as he likes them to be.

Found the thread:

http://modernmoparforum.com/topic/6149-vvt-tune-3-dyno-pull-and-18th-mile-run/

It would really be great to see some of these cars actually run at the track. Over the last 2 years we keep hearing about 100 WHP gains from several vendors but no track numbers. Is it just the customers are not racing or are drivability issues keeping them away from the strip??

Thanks

AJ

[Ed_R 1]

I asked if I could use another tuner on the swapped pcm and I was told no by someone who didn't identify himself.

[1FST4DR 85]

It would really be great to see some of these cars actually run at the track. Over the last 2 years we keep hearing about 100 WHP gains from several vendors but no track numbers. Is it just the customers are not racing or are drivability issues keeping them away from the strip??

Thanks

AJ

^^^^This^^^^^ We have done a couple VVT cam only 274 installs and only saw 50 rwhp . But no track times...

[Speedy 275]

Yea I'm an idiot...I didn't check the Cam Part # before I installed it, and found out the hard way what I had. Sounds like to me with the right cam timing and fuel adjustments these VVT Combos should give great results. Thanks for the call Speedy, I really appreciate your input.

You're no idiot man. You used a 6 speed cam and turned off VVT, should be a no brainer but with these cars and their tuning quirks who knows.

How can Mike say that....he tuned mine!

Yours has been all over the place. I was hoping to see some good stuff at CF4 but whatever was causing your knock problems skewed results obviously.

It would really be great to see some of these cars actually run at the track. Over the last 2 years we keep hearing about 100 WHP gains from several vendors but no track numbers. Is it just the customers are not racing or are drivability issues keeping them away from the strip??

Thanks

AJ

Exactly. The one car reporting 12.0 at 119MPH is impressive, but no slip to back it up. I guess people are happy with dyno numbers and never go to the track to see if they have what the they're told they have.

[CruzKing 140]

any 5.7 NA results???/

[Williams RT 70]

You're no idiot man. You used a 6 speed cam and turned off VVT, should be a no brainer but with these cars and their tuning quirks who .

Turned off MDS

[rdrdr90 38]

Yours has been all over the place. I was hoping to see some good stuff at CF4 but whatever was causing your knock problems skewed results obviously.

My point was, Mike has datalogs from me with no knock on a dyno. How could he say he doesn't?

[TimeWaitsFNM 16]

I have the non-MDS cam on my auto, no more ticking issue than the stock hemi tick I had to begin with. I like the sound now with the headers.

About 9k miles after the install.

[ironchallenger 108]

Switching to a non vvt block and buying all the accessories to make it work is still cheaper than a vvt cam.......

Hatersgonnahate

Yes you are correct.... you awesomely sexy man

[TorRed Dave 6]

talking to urself again?? don't you have some potatoes to make

[Speedy 275]

Turned off MDS

Whoops, that's what I meant. Long day.

My point was, Mike has datalogs from me with no knock on a dyno. How could he say he doesn't?

Maybe because it wasn't on his dyno back to back, dunno you'd have to ask him. Obviously there is no trend here which is what we're looking for.

[rdrdr90 38]

Agreed. I will say I am becoming less enchanted with it as time goes on.

[rdrdr90 38]

Ok, so not sure this is cam related but, the issue with my car is negative timing at launch. Car runs just dandy on the street and over 4k on the track it screams. Launching at the track....not so much. Mike has the logs and he says he has never seen anything like it.

I do like being original.

Should have a revision back shortly and maybe then I can get out to the track and post a damn number

Still have faith in this cam, and yes, I get the knocking for a couple of seconds at startup too.

[345_CHLNGR 9]

Here you go Jay...

Dyno with Arrington Magnuson Supercharger Tune

Running 9.261 for A/F Ratio and Total TIming of 10.5 Degrees.

Reduced Fuel -15% @ all RPM's and added 2 Degrees Timing on 1st and 2nd RPM Levels. A/F Ratio = 11.3 and Timing = 13.00

[CruzKing 140]

Dyno sheet , 392 cam and JBA shortie headers

Plus 43 hp total 354

Plus 27 trq. total 355

there is a trq. drop from 2900 rpms to 3500 rpms that i'm not too happy about.

[rdrdr90 38]

At 6lbs of boost....

[BayouTiger 98]

Did it start out that fat, or did it gradually get rich over time. Curious because I have had tunes leave the shop at 11.5 and after awhile dropped to less than 10 AFR. We have been thinking this has to do with the same issue I have had with my car dying when decelerating after the tune has been loaded for a few hundred miles.

[345_CHLNGR 9]

Did it start out that fat, or did it gradually get rich over time. Curious because I have had tunes leave the shop at 11.5 and after awhile dropped to less than 10 AFR. We have been thinking this has to do with the same issue I have had with my car dying when decelerating after the tune has been loaded for a few hundred miles.

FAT from the Start. Temperature has so much to do with A/F Ratio and can change it a couple points quickly.

[Speedy 275]

Good info. Greg, yours looks pretty dang good except for that weird drop at low RPMs. Get that straightened out and I think you'll be happy. My only other concern there is the starting baseline was around 300RWHP when most stock RTs are 330. It wouldn't be too hard to look around for other RT baselines on Arrington's dyno to see what they made. Was it hot in the dyno room during the baseline or was the car heat soaked? That could account for some of it if so.

345_Chlngr - looks like you made the right changes to the tune to get it where I'd want it to be. I'm no expert tuner, but I know what's good and what's not. There is a modifier in the stock tunes for CAT OVERTEMP PROTECTION that can kick in at times and make the AFR go rich if the cat temp gets above a certain threshold. Most tuners turn that off in race tunes and leave it alone on street tunes. As you probably know, when this condition is met the PCM commands more fuel be dumped to cool the cat down. However if yours was like that from the get go, that wasn't the issue. One thing I have seen is that tuning on the dyno for 11.5 usually means 10.8 on the street. My theory is that the extra load on the car on the street makes the AFR a bit richer than what was tuned for on the dyno. Load based dynos help account for that if used. When I tuned my 4Runner on the dyno then road tested I had to take out a ton of fuel on the street to make it right. Noticed the same on the Challenger working with Mike at CF4.

Road logs are always the best bet for final tuning as that is actual running conditions, IMO.

I'll e-mail you here in a few.

[1FST4DR 85]

I wouldn't be concerned with what other cars dyno'd they could have dyno'd other times of the year "gets cold in martinville" etc etc. as long as he used the same dyno and was within a few days of each other I wouldn't be concerned.. remember a dyno is just a tool You really wanna know? Take that fucker to the track just my 0.2

[CruzKing 140]

Good info. Greg, yours looks pretty dang good except for that weird drop at low RPMs. Get that straightened out and I think you'll be happy. My only other concern there is the starting baseline was around 300RWHP when most stock RTs are 330. It wouldn't be too hard to look around for other RT baselines on Arrington's dyno to see what they made. Was it hot in the dyno room during the baseline or was the car heat soaked? That could account for some of it if so.

I drove up Tuesday morning 5 hour drive got there about 9 am, dyno done about 9:45 I think. not sure how hot the engine was. the last dyno pull was after about an hour or more on the dyno, out side temp in the 80's .

yes the base line was 311 hp. not what I expected.

well if I can get that low end issue resolved I will be at VMP in two weeks.

[rdrdr90 38]

Just got a revision back from Mike. The reason for all of my issues down low was to prevent KNK, that was before my false knk issues were resolved. Should be just fine now. I'll know in a couple of weeks.